Opinion on Bowlbacks

[MissSavannah]

Recently I had a chance to play an old bowlback mandolin from around 1920. I was starting to look into buying it, but several people told me that bowlbacks are generally viewed as a mistake, and have no structural integrity and are generally much worse instruments than their flatback counterparts.

I don't know much about this. Do any of you? Opinion on bowlbacks?

[Schlegel]

Well, there are some here who would argue strongly with that view. It's true most people now don't know how to identify a good bowlback, and like all instruments, the cheap lower quality stuff outnumbers the high quality instruments. It's more a question of do you know the one you are looking at is in good shape (a question you face buying any vintage instrument), and is a bowlback appropriate for what you want to play. Most Americans play bluegrass, so they want archtops. If you play another style, the floor is wide open.

[JeffD]

Old dried out ignored and abused bowlbacks can lack structural integrity. Old dried out ignored and abused flatbacks and archtops lack structural integrity.

There are thunky, good and great bowlbacks, new and vintage bowlbacks, sweet and sour bowlbacks, just like other types of mandolins.

I think there is a particular magic associated with playing a bowlback. . Its a very old instrument, from much older folk and classical traditions, from places that to me feel exotic and romantic. I love just seeing my hands confidently holding the thing, not to mention knowing which end gets hot first. And thats because the bowlback and its history and music are so much bigger than me. More than I do with an arch top or a flatty, with a bowlback I feel that connection to something very huge and very old and very important. It almost doesn't matter what you play on the thing, the fun of it.

It is not an either or. Its not a preference for this or that. We can and should do it all. If you get the opportunity to own and play a bowlback, don't miss it. Don't get talked out of it.

Yea it doesn't chop like and F5, and you will raise eyebrows taking a bowlback into a bluegrass jam (don't ask me how I know), but the majority of the world's mandolin players do not play bluegrass, and I would even bet the majority of the worlds mandolin (and mandolin family) players play a bowlback.

And the bowlback in old time music is just wonderful.

[brunello97]

Miss Savanah, what Schlegel says is very true, and Jeff is far more eloquent than I.

To augment them, here is a link to an ongoing discussion here at the Mandolin Cafe about all things bowl back:

Bowlbacks of Note

Certainly the most extensive, knowledgeable, comprehensive, opinionated, useful, interesting ongoing conversations about bowlback mandolins ever assembled in one place. Wade in anywhere and you will catch some of the enthusiasm and love for these amazing instruments. Don't let anyone else tell you what you can or cannot play on your instrument...

I have the pleasure/privilege to own archtop, flattop and bowlback mandolins. Each has their own voice and musicality and I enjoy them all for different reasons and sometimes the same reason. Why not simply enjoy the mandolin in all its forms, shapes and musics?

What type of music do you enjoy playing? Bowlback mandolins have their own unique sound and intimacy of holding and playing. Once you are hooked, you are hooked for life.

The only 'mistake' that you might make in acquiring a bowlback mandolin would be the same mistake you might make buying any other mandolin: getting something that was in poor condition, unplayable to begin with or outside your own financial resources.

Can you tell us a bit more about the mandolin you are considering? Do you have any images of it that you can post? Both of those might help folks here give you some more useable opinions and advice.

Mick

[allenhopkins]

Bowl-back mandolins are, in general, more lightly built than newer mandolins made either with flat backs and tops (or "canted" tops), or with carved or heat-pressed, arched backs and tops. For that reason, one must use lighter gauge strings, which put less tension on tops and necks.

Also, most bowl-backs you find were made 75-125 years ago, when the bowl-back was still the most common type of construction. So they've had longer exposure to the hazards of use and of storage. You find many bowl-backs with structural issues, if they have not had proper care. Those strung with "modern" heavier-gauge strings often show the ill effects.

But there's nothing inherently inferior about bowl-backs, given proper care and use. They sound different from their "flat" and carved cousins, often sweeter, clearer, with more treble emphasis, a less "gutsy" sound. Bowl-backs aren't well suited to bluegrass music, as the role of the mandolin in a bluegrass band involves percussive rhythm chording as well as soloing, and bowl-backs don't "chop" well.

One drawback is that the bowl-back "lute" shaped body, is somewhat harder to hold in playing position than the flatter silhouette. And if one plays standing up, the rounded back tends to "roll around" a bit. So that should be a consideration.

One big "plus" of bowl-backs is that they're currently somewhat out of fashion among the majority of mandolin players. As a result, few new ones are being made (none in the US of which I'm aware), but there is a vast supply of older instruments, available at bargain prices as compared to other styles. One can pick up a top-quality bowl-back for a fraction of what a carved-top-and-back instrument of the same vintage would usually cost. Properly vetted by a good pro dealer or repair shop, such an instrument would be a real joy to play. And the handwork and ornamentation lavished on the best vintage bowl-backs exceeds nearly every other type of instrument; they're real beauties.

[JeffD]

One drawback is that the bowl-back "lute" shaped body, is somewhat harder to hold in playing position than the flatter silhouette. And if one plays standing up, the rounded back tends to "roll around" a bit. So that should be a consideration..

There is a trick to it. But once you know the trick they are as easy to hold as any other mandolin.

[MissSavannah]

The mandolin I was looking into was an A. Galiano as far as I know, which I couldn't find much information on. As far as I can tell, this mandolin herehttp://www.gruhn.com/photo/MF7964.jpg is basically identical. Currently, I have a cheapo A-style mandolin (don't get me wrong, that thing is a beast!) and I really love it, but it can be pretty harsh sounding sometimes. I definitely love the sweeter sound of a bowlback.

Basically, I was concerned I was buying a moneypit; an instrument I'd fall in love with that would end up falling to pieces. Seems to me that the people who told me they were a "mistake" were a bit mistaken themselves!

[allenhopkins]

There is a trick to it. But once you know the trick they are as easy to hold as any other mandolin.

So speaks a thinner person than I.

Adding: "A. Galiano" was a brand sold by Oscar Schmidt, and apparently incorporated the products of several NY City and other makers. Here's an interesting short article on a Galiano guitar, apparently built in the NY shop of Antonio Cerrito; it mentions some of the other Italian-American luthiers who built "A. Galiano" instruments, including Raphael Ciani, whose nephew, the legendary John D'Angelico, reputedly built this "A. Galiano" mandolin with his uncle's label. On the other hand, this 2010 Cafe thread depicts an "A. Galiano" mandolin clearly built by Stromberg-Voisinet, the precursors of the Kay brand of inexpensive instruments. So an "A. Galiano" mandolin could be the product of a top-line luthiery in NY, or a Chicago mass-producer (well, comparatively).

[JeffD]

So speaks a thinner person than I.

I dunno. Some people claim my infatuation with bowlbacks is because they are shaped like me.

[JeffD]

Basically, I was concerned I was buying a moneypit; an instrument I'd fall in love with that would end up falling to pieces. !

No more or less than any other mandolin.

One issue is the bowbacks commonly available here in the states are typically US made 100 year old instruments, and you have to be careful. But bowlbacks are still being made in many places, and, like other mandolins, you can spend as much as you want.

I will let smarter bowlheads talk about A. Galiano.

[Schlegel]

There is a trick to it. But once you know the trick they are as easy to hold as any other mandolin.

Hint: forearm basically in middle of instrument, parallelish with the strings. Some pressure towards the chest, done well they would even play standing up with no strap. Though I admit amateur self sits down.

[JeffD]

And I use this stuff.

I usually play sitting down, because I usually do everything sitting down. But when I am forced to play standing, with a bowl back, I found a way to rig up some of this stuff on the front of my shirt, to hold the bowl back against. Very non-obtrusive. Very effective.

[Tim2723]

An interesting historical point is that the bowlback had a significant place in Irish and Scottish music when the mandolin first became popular for those cultures. They were supplanted by flat-tops and, today, archtops to a great degree, but a lot of early ITM recordings featured bowlbacks.

[brunello97]

Miss Savannah, if the mandolin you are looking at is 'basically identical' with the one you posted at Gruhn, then it is hard to see how you could go wrong. That is a fine instrument, notable for the overall quality of the wood, the care and precision of the detailing, the number of ribs making up the bowl and the engraving on the tailpiece.

I'm not sure where concerns like 'the instrument falling apart' may come from. Bowlback instruments were made lighter so to be more sonically responsive to the strings. (But they do require that you use much lighter strings than larger, heftier mandolins.) I prefer to refer to these as Neapolitan mandolins as it reflects their (generalized) origin and cultural heritage, which is present when you play one as Jeff nicely describes in his post. "Bowlback" just refers to their shape, which somehow seems so much less inspirational.

The instrument at Gruhn is at least 100 years old. It doesn't look ready to fall apart any time soon. If that mandolin is played with care and stored in a case it will certainly be around making music in another 100 years. The same with yours. If you get it, invest in a case, be sure to use extra lightweight strings and treat it as you would any special musical instrument. It will be fine. As much misinformation has been spread about these mandolins as any other topic discussed here. Makes no sense to me.

I'm with Tim. Carolan sounds great on a Neapolitan mandolin.

Mick

[Randi Gormley]

I was idly wondering who the "several people" were who told you a bowlback was a mistake, myself. I learned how to play mandolin on bowlback, and recently acquired one for classical music which did very well during a recent workshop and got a couple of admiring glances. It is a surprisingly recognizable instrument out in the real world, unlike my other mandolins. I sometimes think people pan bowlbacks because they associate them with a specific type of music or background, which is just silly.

[Jim Garber]

Nah! They are all terrible. Don't buy any of them! There will be more for us at lower prices...

Most of the heavy hitters in the bowback universe have checked in. I have very little to add. Good advice all around.

Like any other genre of instrument there are ones that are mediocre and ones that are exceptional. If you like playing that Galiano, have it checked out by a luthier to make sure that it is solid and no issues. Also, string it lightly. GHS A240s are good inexpensive strings but I like the Dogal Calace Dolce strings.

[Martin Jonas]

Maybe just worth adding that the listing for the A. Galiano photo from Gruhn is here. Gruhn description is "EXF, made by Raphael Ciani (John D'Angelico's uncle under whom D'Angelico apprenticed), Brazilian rosewood ribs, spruce top, SC". In view of the history of the Galiano brand summarised by Allen, I would take Gruhn's attribution to Ciani with a pinch of salt, unless his name is on the label (which it sometimes is). There are almost as many alleged "Cianis" out there as alleged "Larsons". Gruhn's $1500 asking price is fantasy, but I agree that the one shown in the photo is a very fine instrument and if you can get a truly similar one in good condition for a reasonable price, by all means go for it.

Martin

[brunello97]

... There are almost as many alleged "Cianis" out there as alleged "Larsons"...

Martin

Mick

[mandroid]

Owned a C.F.Martin made bowl back mandolin for a while.. Quite nice, simple decoration.
may have been in a period when they made the flat back and the bowl back at the same time,
since the pick-guard style on the top was similar , the teardrop,
which is still used on guitars..

[Benjamin T]

I agree with Jim Garber, there is excellent advice above. I encourage you, however, to jump in. The day I acquired my Ciani/ Galiano, was among the happiest musical days in my life up to that point. I was no longer fighting with an instrument just to play it. It led me down a long road of discovery in terms of repertoire, technique, and the Ladies love 'em! Who could ask for anything more?

[JeffD]

and the Ladies love 'em! Who could ask for anything more?

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money. Oh... Never mind.