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Thread: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

  1. #26
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Perry View Post
    I suppose listening to "two-guitar" jazz records would shed some light.
    I'm sure there are others examples as well.
    The Joe Pass - Herb Ellis records are wonderful for this.
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  2. #27

    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by DSDarr View Post
    Check out the second half of this Austin City Limits from 1980 with Johnny Gimble, Tiny Moore, and Jethro Burns for various combinations of electric and acoustic mando jazz.



    -David

    p.s.

    Check out the first half of this show for an early incarnation of the DGQ with Mark O'Connor on guitar.
    Can you people please stop posting videos like this? I need to practice, and this is NOT HELPING!!!

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  4. #28

    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Just finished watching that ACLU episode (and NOT PRACTICING.... ). That performance belongs in the National Archives! Wow!!!

  5. #29
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Should I feel enticed? Only you can tell.

    Most electric mandolins sound like electric guitars. Yes.

    Is it less satisfying? Only you can tell.

    Is the sound of a miked acoustic mandolin preferable? Only you can tell.


    Do electric guitars have a different voice and identity than acoustic guitars? yes

    Is this different sound for a mandolin justifiable? Only you can tell.

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  6. #30
    Registered User Perry's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Kotapish View Post
    I think you mean Bill Frisell and JIM Hall. Jim Hall was one of Frisell's mentors, and they have recorded a CD (Hemispheres) and a few other sides over the years.
    Thanks yes of course......Jim...I don't know why I typed John.....Hemispheres is an interesting CD. Disc 1 is just Bill and Jim so you can really hear the two guitar interaction.

  7. #31
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by lukmanohnz View Post
    Can you people please stop posting videos like this? I need to practice, and this is NOT HELPING!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by lukmanohnz View Post
    That performance belongs in the National Archives! Wow!!!
    No kidding. I got barely more than a minute into the second half (where I started) when I realized I was going to put this in the archives. That way i can dial it up any time want to listen to (not watch) while doing other things on my computer. How to devote time to practice is another issue, but "thought practice" is always useful.

    Oh - astonishing this has less than 2000 hits. Well, perhaps after more thought, not surprising at all, given several much-mentioned factors affecting public tastes, perceptions, appropriate roles, and popularity where mandolins are concerned.

    Pretty sure that all that was meant in the OP by the phrase "barely justifiable" is that mandolins have not shown up in jazz much historically, and bringing one into a jazz setting even now is bound to bring some odd glances, vebiage, and otrher reactions. Not that it can't hold its own, but it is bound to be regarded with some skepticism and perceived as a novelty. I get a lot of that when playing mandolin in a rock context, another genre where the instrument is not commonly used historically nor considered appropriate by the general population (evidence of hundreds of uses on the listings of rock songs w/ mando thread to the contrary). I have taken great pains to find ways to make it sound right for the songs and styles I play; jazz mandolinists should too. And if you can work some quintessentially mandolinistic characteristics into what you are doing and these work well with the ensemble sound, i would call that successful, worthy of a big ta-da!

    As to what is the point - that's always hard to determine. We're devoted to an area of human endeavor many (particularly non-musicians (the vast majority) and even a lot of music lovers) consider pointless, so there may not be much point in wondering about this at all. But aside from playing jazz on an A model, there is bound to be some point, IMHO. Even on an A model, if you're playing it right.
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

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  9. #32
    Professional Dreamer journeybear's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    BTW, while this should indeed be added to the National Archives, it will not be added to my personal archives. After several unsuccessful download attempts, I have concluded that downoading has been disabled. I have also concluded that I am indeed crazy, as I did the same thing repeatedly, hoping for a different result. That's how much I wanted it - I was willing to risk my sanity. What's left of it, anyway.

    Gotta say - nice to hear the old theme music again. And I don't remember shows beginning with a live scene taped inside a bar (presuming this was at Armadillo World Headquarters). This was an extra treat, hearing in the background Willie Nelson covering Bob Wills' classic, "Stay All Night." Now that's Texas!
    But that's just my opinion. I could be wrong. - Dennis Miller

    Furthering Mandolin Consciousness

    Finders Keepers, my duo with the astoundingly talented and versatile Patti Rothberg. Our EP is finally done, and available! PM me, while they last!

  10. #33
    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    I take my electric mando to many Jazz jams in the Seattle area. The first time I show up, I do get some funny looks. Now folks are happy to see me.

    As said by someone, somewhere: "Just do it!"
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  11. #34
    ISO TEKNO delsbrother's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Do you think Mike still has the tunic?

  12. #35

    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Loved the tunic and really dug the video! Sure this has been covered, but is that a 2-pt. oval hole Monteleone that Tiny is playing? Is this instrument well-associated with him, and has it been discussed a bunch on The Cafe? Also, what F is Jethro playing?
    Thanks!

  13. #36
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Anyhow , notice the different sound on the Tiny, Johnny and Jethro of how the choice of the amplification
    type used <> i expect Jethro Had a sound board pickup in there,
    Tiny used magnetic pickups on a solid body and Johnny had a magnetic pickup on a hollow body.

    Even with 2 Viola tuned 4 strings the body cavity under the bridge adds something [1 of each , here]
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  14. #37
    Registered User Dave Gumbart's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Today I came across a recording of an old John Hartford, Vassar Clements show from October 1974, from the University of Florida (http://bt.etree.org/details.php?id=560743) . In and of itself, a cool set of music. In checking out the set list, it makes note of Vassar on e-mando on My Rag. No way! You can hear some tasty playing from Vassar all throughout, but hang in there until the 1:30 mark, and he gets to open it up a bit. Good fun, and I thought worth sharing on this thread.

    Dave

    p.s. go with the 2.23 mb version. Not sure why the first attempt to create an mp3 file was only 30 seconds, and I'm not sure if I can delete that original upload. The larger file is the whole tune.
    Attached Files Attached Files

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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Guitar is a versatile instrument and I love it but, probably because I grew up playing violin, I only found true freedom to find notes and improvise after I committed to 5- and 10-string mandolin. While tone has some import, having something to say and the capacity to deliver it justifies using any instrument. So I don't try to avoid sounding like a guitar, because I can do things on the mandolin that I can't on guitar.

    When I sit in with guitar players I do separate myself tonally, but there are many ways to do that. When the jazz guys are using the neck pickup on their guitars, I use the treble pickup on the 5-string with tone rolled back, a la funky John Scofield, or I use my Buchanan with magnetic pickup and deliver a rich 10-string tone. The main separation, though, is playing differently, and commenting on, improving on, or contrasting with what the others did.
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by journeybear View Post
    BTW, while this should indeed be added to the National Archives, it will not be added to my personal archives. After several unsuccessful download attempts, I have concluded that downoading has been disabled. I have also concluded that I am indeed crazy, as I did the same thing repeatedly, hoping for a different result. That's how much I wanted it - I was willing to risk my sanity. What's left of it, anyway.

    Gotta say - nice to hear the old theme music again. And I don't remember shows beginning with a live scene taped inside a bar (presuming this was at Armadillo World Headquarters). This was an extra treat, hearing in the background Willie Nelson covering Bob Wills' classic, "Stay All Night." Now that's Texas!
    I downloaded it successfully using Mozilla Firefox with Download Helper. Very few, if any, UTubs I can't download if I want them.
    It is a great show, and I'm one who prefers mando to sound like mando, but I always love Tiny Moore's playing, regardless.
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  19. #40
    http://www.barimando.com/ Barry Mando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    I see that I am a tad late on this topic but I have to say there is a point. The mando, preferably the Baritone Mandolin for me, is my voice, my extension, and the best way for me to express my art. I play quite a few instruments, guitar included, and have just never found as much joy with those as I do with the baritone mando. One of the things I like about it the most is that its in the range of a guitar and it being a single string instrument I can do all the bends and "tricks" that one can on guitar. If you like this video then, please, check out my trio, The Barry Mando Project. Its a more modern approach in the jazz world with a variety of influences coming from around the world. Enjoy.

  20. #41
    Registered User mandrian's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Danny,

    I really enjoyed that, but what exactly is a baritone mandolin in terms of scale, tuning, number of strings, etc?

    Thanks.

  21. #42

    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Really Nice Danny!

    I'm with you and need a longer scale length (than mando) for comfort

  22. #43
    http://www.barimando.com/ Barry Mando's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Thanks, guys! Baritone is in reference to the register that the instrument is in. The baritone Mando is tuned an octave lower than an acoustic but has a fifth string which is a high b to put it out of an octave Mando range and into a baritone. Low to high its tuned GDAEb. Not exactly sure of the scale length but I believe it's around 18" or so. It's a unique instrument for sure and a lot of fun to play, especially jazz music.

    Best

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  24. #44
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    First off, Danny, great playing and great tone.

    I think there is as much point to electric jazz mandolin as there is any other instrument. The instrument is just a conduit used to express the musicians ideas.

    Since the OP stated this is a survey of sorts I'll give my opinions.

    8 string acoustic mando: I love it in a jazz setting. A couple of my favorite jazz recordings are by Don Stiernberg.

    5 or 4 string electric mando: Sure they work fine for jazz but I don't see them bringing anything to the party that electric guitar can't.

    Bottom line, in my opinion, it's all about the player.

    Full Disclosure: I sold my mandolin 5 years ago due to repetitive movement injurys and used the money to buy a nice hand carved archtop guitar, which I find less stressful on my left hand but as I said, it's just a conduit (tool) to convey ideas.
    Last edited by 250sc; Feb-07-2013 at 11:40am.

  25. #45
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by SincereCorgi View Post
    My problem is to figure out how to approach playing alongside an electric guitar without sounding like I'm doing the same thing, just smaller.
    My thoughts run towards an eight string emando. Then you have the chorus effect of unison strings, and killer tremolo opportunities. It keeps it mandolinny.
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  27. #46

    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by SincereCorgi View Post
    Hey, I'm just saying: you show up to play jazz with a mandolin or an oboe, you're going to get funny looks.
    Or you are Paul McCandless

    Jazz is not about boundaries. It's probably the most innovative form of music there is

  28. #47
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Since my name seems to keep popping up (thanks for the kind words by the way!), I figured I would post my thoughts on the topic. The first thing I would like to point out is that there really is no difference between a guitarist going between playing an acoustic guitar and electric guitar and a mandolin player going between acoustic and electric mandolin. One of the reasons that the electric mandolin is often thought of as less then an electric guitar is because a lot of mandolin players either started on guitar or double on guitar so they feel that if they had to choose between the electric guitar and emando, the guitar would be their first chose since yes, comparatively it has a larger range of notes and potential for chords. That being said though, if mandolin is your primary instrument or you are more comfortable soloing on the mandolin, there is no reason that your shouldn't be like every guitar player and own/play both an acoustic and electric mandolin and switch depending on the setting your playing in. I personally enjoying playing both acoustic and electric mandolin and switch between them depending on the group I am playing with and the overall sound I want.

    My new axe as Charlie mentioned is a 5 strings acoustic/electric "jazzbo" made by Paul Lestock. The low C string opens up more potential for chords along with an extended range for soloing. Because of the larger scale length, the C string really rings out and doesn't sound too flabby or loose like other ones I have tried. The scale length isn't too drastic though, so it doesn't feel too different from playing a four string or regular 5-string. The semi-hollow body aspect gives it a little more acoustic sound and warmth which works great for swing and jazz. It doesn't however make my SAGA emando obsolete, I see it more as owning a Gibson arch-top and a telecaster (to bring it back to guitars) so each works better in different settings. I have been using the SAGA solid body more for playing with rock/country bands since it can gets more volume and cuts.

    For my closing argument, I would like to say that I think the most important thing we can all do as mandolin fans is to start changing the attitude and stigma of electric mandolin so it's seen as a legit instrument and tool for great music making just like any instrument!

    Jason

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  30. #48
    Registered User Rick Jones's Avatar
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?

    Great post, Jason. I watched the vids with the Jazzbo, and it (and you) sound great together. Any new projects in the works? If "Sleepless" was an analog disc, I'd have worn out the grooves by now.
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    Default Re: Is there much point to an electric jazz mandolin?


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