Weber Octave Mandolin

[Loren Franklin]

Just got my new Weber Octave delivered a few days ago. I ordered it sight-unseen from the factory, and I wish I hadn't. It retails for $3200, and I expected it to be built with a high quality book-matched back. I see the pictures of other peoples mandolins, and I feel like a fool for buying something without seeing it first. It is the worst back I have ever seen on a mandolin in this price range.

Oh well, live and learn. The strings are sticking in the nut, and it is a bear to get tuned. I guess I will take it to a repair person in Eugene: one who has a great reputation with the local players, and see if he can make it tune-able; and get the nut and neck set properly. The G strings buzz on the frets at the factory's recommended setting, so hopefully I can get it fixed, and learn my lesson: never buy an instrument sight unseen, no matter what name is on the headstock.

[Eric C.]

Can you not return it?

[Loren Franklin]

Yes, I can return it. The music store I bought it from are willing to let me ship it back for a full refund. They were very good about it. They informed me that Weber sold-out to TOH, and that his wood pile was probably getting scant; and he might just be getting rid of questionable stock. That was their speculation, not mine. I communicated with Mr Weber myself via e mail. It didn't go well at all.

But hey, I'm a big boy, and I have been playing since 1965; the fiddle/guitar/dobro/mandolin and mouth harps. I knew better. My problem right now is I just can't bring my self to open the case and look at it. Mostly because of the bad words between Mr Weber and myself.

I think I'll just keep it and learn my lesson, and move on. It does have wonderful tone, and the finish is mostly good on it, with only a few bad spots that needed more atention. I think once I get it set up to play well, I will learn to love it. I'm not that great looking myself, so it will fit in eventually. But people really do need to resist the urge to buy something they haven't seen, when opinions of quality are such subjective calls.

I recently had a better experience when I ordered a Gold Tone resonator through Beard. It was only $1000. The finish has problems, the neck is a bit crooked, the binding is uneven: but I knew it was a sweat-shop instrument going into the deal. It was set up at the Beard factory before being shipped to me, and the set up was perfect. And the tone is amazing for a resonator in this price range -- comparable to $4000 instruments. So I had good luck there.

No, I'm going to keep the Weber Octave and chalk it up as a lesson. But the next "hand-made" instrument I buy -- I will have to approve the wood on the back. For $3200, I want a book-matched back, not a fake-matched back.

[Jim Garber]

I am a firm believer in communicating your dissatisfaction to the maker. I agree that for $3200 you should have excellent setup, properly matched woods. However, it also sounds like nothing is right with this instrument -- you say it needs a neck set? Man, I would call them and send it right back immediately. Why are you punishing yourself -- that is your hard-earned cash and why would you possibly keep what sounds like a poorly made instrument from a company that should know better.

That is a very expensive lesson you are teaching yourself.

but one more question: Of course, it is good to vent, but why only do it here. I would complain to them. In fact I would have given them the chance to make good on this to begin with before even mentioning this on this forum.

[Loren Franklin]

Well, I did, and I was instantly insulted. I was told that his instruments were perfect, and that if I didn't like the set-up, I could change it myself. He told me that if I didn't like the neck set-up, that I could change it. When I objected to fixing it myself, and called him on the wood on the back, I was told I had an attitude, and he would not communicate with me again. After that, I lost my temper with him. So, that's my fault for loosing my temper.

I'm just going to get it fixed, and get over it. I guess I posted this pic to remind people that they really need to see their instrument first, before buying. Weber has made some wonderful instruments for a lot of people. But you still need to see what you are buying first, no matter who's name in on the head stock.

[sgarrity]

I don't see anything wrong with the back wood. It's not overly flamey but you also paid $3,200 for it. That's not exactly a lot in the carved top mandolin world.

[Loren Franklin]

It's a very subjective call. For $3200, a person should expect high grade wood -- well matched. But, you are entitled to your opinion. The thing is, look before you buy. That is the mistake I made.

[mandobassman]

Personally, I think it's a beautiful back. I never concerned myself so much with the look of the woods used. As long as it sounds good, the wood doesn't matter to me. Just because it's not bookmatched doesn't mean it isn't high quality wood. But if I received a new instrument from someone with the reputation the Weber has, that has the neck and nut issues that yours apparently has, I would be pretty hot about it as well. I would either take the music store up on their offer to return it for a refund or have them send it back to Weber for the repairs. There's no reason for you to have to pay for any of it. But, if you are going to send it back to Weber, don't let anyone else work on it before that. You might void any warranty

[Bruce D. Weber]

Hey Folks, If any of you would like to email me personally, I'll share all the correspondence between Loren the Mandolin Store and I. The language he used wouldn't be appropriate to post here.

[Bigtuna]

Yes, I can return it. The music store I bought it from are willing to let me ship it back for a full refund. They were very good about it.

Problem solved in my opinion, eating the cost of shipping can't be that bad. It's better than keeping it and being bitter.

[Loren Franklin]

Yes, I did loose my temper with you, Bruce, no doubt about it. I also have a copy for anyone who wants to see how you dealt with the problem: blaming it on me. I still have a mandolin with a back that isn't book-matched, and the emails will show that you told me your mandolins are perfect, and I could fix it my self if I don't like it.

I didn't buy it for the headstock. I wanted a playable mandolin, made with book-matched maple. I got neither. Bruce did offer to build me a new one, through the people in the music store I bought it from. But after his insulting manner of dealing with it, I just want to move on. It will be fixed in a few weeks, and I think I will be cool with it once the disappointment wears off. He does make a fine mandolin, lots of great Webers out there, and I am sure it will be fine when the bugs are worked out of it. And I will live with Bruce's poor wood choice. Life isn't perfect.

See it before you buy it.

Have a nice day, Bruce.

[King Dave]

I recently had a related--but very different--experience. I, too, purchased a Weber octave sight-unseen, and it arrived a month ago. I looks to be the exact model pictured above. But my finish and setup are first rate. There's nothing special about me--I didn't do anything to deserve this great instrument. But sometimes you can buy sight-unseen and it works out really great.

[George R. Lane]

My question is, did you specifically order it with a bookmatched back? If not then you have no quarrel with them. I have seen instruments from many builders with backs that don't seem to be book matched. If it sounds good then that is all that matters. I have a beautiful quilted back on my Yellowstone but, I don't sit and gaze at it lovingly. I play it.

[RBMB]

Didn't the store set up the OM for you? Was the OM first shipped to the store and then you, or did it get shipped directly to you?

I deal with folks who are upset with each other frequently. My advice to Bruce and you is to take a few days cooling off period and then to try to resolve things. You might want to consider letting someone handle the communications and avoid direct contact if either of you are still upset.

I love Weber instruments. They're great playing and sounding. I presently own a mandola that is fantastic and I'm lusting after some of the short scale OM's I've seen. I agree with you that the back isn't well matched and I probably would have looked for alternatives if I saw it in a store. You should let Bruce have the opportunity to build you an instrument you like. Weber makes great instruments and you should get the chance to enjoy one that meets your desires (within reason). (I've seen lots of instances where folks had a big fight and ended up best of friends.)

As an aside, I have a friend who is luthier and he tells me many builders aren't the best at setting up instruments. He tells me to buy from a reputable store and that the store should handle the setup. I've bought two new instruments that needed a good setup, even though both were bought from very reputable stores. I don't know if the stores don't spend enough time setting up the new instruments or if it is just the result of settling in. In the end, it might just be that my friend is great at setting things up to my preferences.

Lastly, I think Bruce and you should take things off-line, should avoid sending out e-mails that were created in anger and should ask the Cafe to remove the posts.

[Bob Clark]

Hi Loren,

I am a little confused as to why you are so upset. You have two very good courses of remedy open to you. You can return it for a full refund, or Weber will build you a new one. At least that's what I think is being stated above. I cannot see anything to be upset about if those two options are available to you. That seems like good customer service to me.

As for the problems with this instrument, maybe there are simple solutions. Are you sure it needs a neck set? Maybe it just needs a little truss rod/bridge adjustment. This could easily be nothing more than changes due to different humidity/temperature conditions between the shop and your home. And for the sticking nut, There might be an easy fix for that, too. Every time I replace strings, I rub a very small amount of pencil graphite into each nut groove to avoid sticking. Maybe that will work for you, too. I'd give it a try, after all, what do you have to loose?

I am not trying to downplay your dissatisfaction, just suggesting that maybe it's not as bad as you think it is at the moment. Take a deep breath and think this through. You may decide this OM is a really nice instrument after all.

As for your issue with Bruce, I don't know what went on so I can't comment on that. But look at the long-standing reputation the folks at Weber have for giving exceptional customer service. I can't think of any other company in any type of business with a reputation as golden as theirs. They have my confidence and I know they have the confidence of many others here. Maybe you should consider cooling off for a day or so, and then try starting anew in conversing with Bruce. Ultimately, you may be glad you did.

I really do wish you all the best in this. I'd hate to see you remain unhappy with this OM, or pass it up for something that might not be as good. I hope you end up loving your Weber OM as much as I love mine. You may not agree at the moment, but I think that these really are great instruments made by the nicest people you'll meet.

Bob

[chip]

Seems to me that if Bruce offered to make it right and your dissatisfied with the purchase then take him up on it. Seems like a no brainer to me. Don't let egos get in the way of good gestures.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Usually,we see mandolins & related instruments with properly 'book matched' wood on the back,but it's not always the case. I've seen a few on here where there's been almost no 'flame' in the back,or the panels have been un-matched. I'd be a bit disappointed myself if my instruments hadn't got what i 'expected' re.the back panels,but if the instrument played & sounded good,i'd most likely live with it. If i were in Loren's position,i'd ship the instrument back to Bruce himself & let him look at it regarding the supposed neck problem. Sometimes,(or maybe 'mostly'),our expectations are let down by reality - that's life !,
Ivan

[Bertram Henze]

The advantages of a cool approach before and after the purchase is what the lesson of this episode really seems to be.

[Rosemary Philips]

If you don't like it, send it back. Why do you feel you need to "teach" yourself a $3200 lesson? This makes no sense to me. You don't like the instrument and there are bad feelings between you and the company--just return it and move on.

[Loren Franklin]

My question is, did you specifically order it with a bookmatched back? If not then you have no quarrel with them. I have seen instruments from many builders with backs that don't seem to be book matched. If it sounds good then that is all that matters. I have a beautiful quilted back on my Yellowstone but, I don't sit and gaze at it lovingly. I play it.

No, the picture on his website showing the instrument shows a flamed and book-matched back. It never dawned on me that I had to ask if it would be book-matched, when it is advertised as such. Don't be silly, George.

And as for your comment about other builders, I didn't order it from another builder, I ordered a Weber. Then you tell me that you have a beautiful quilted back on your Yellowstone? Well, that is what you are supposed to have. That is how it is advertised on the Weber site. That is why I expected one myself.

And I play my instruments as well. If I choose to gaze at it lovingly, that would be my business. And to be honest, that is exactly what I waited 3 months to do. Play it and fall in love with it.

I'm a bit disappointed, but I think after I get it worked on, I will be much happier with it; and I tend to get over these things quickly. The mandolin has great tone, the finish is above average, and soon it will play better. I am not interested in waiting another 3 months for a replacement. The wood on the back was a very poor choice, but I can live with it. After all, it's just a mandolin; it's not the end of the world.

I mainly wanted to remind people not to buy without seeing the instrument first. It's just not a good idea. See it before you buy it.

[Loren Franklin]

Usually,we see mandolins & related instruments with properly 'book matched' wood on the back,but it's not always the case. I've seen a few on here where there's been almost no 'flame' in the back,or the panels have been un-matched. I'd be a bit disappointed myself if my instruments hadn't got what i 'expected' re.the back panels,but if the instrument played & sounded good,i'd most likely live with it. If i were in Loren's position,i'd ship the instrument back to Bruce himself & let him look at it regarding the supposed neck problem. Sometimes,(or maybe 'mostly'),our expectations are let down by reality - that's life !,
Ivan

Very true, Ivan. And I agree: the instrument sounds good, and soon will play good, and I'll live with it just fine. When an instrument is advertised with a flamed and book-matched back, that is how it should be made. It's not rocket-science. If that is not the case, then the customer should be told that the instrument will be made with unmatched, low grade wood, unless specified.

There is a guy in Eugene who has a great reputation for setting up instruments. All the studio musicians I know, as well as most of the players I know use him. I feel much better about using him than sending it to someone I have zero faith in. It just seems like a better fit for me.

See it before you buy it.

[Loren Franklin]

If you don't like it, send it back. Why do you feel you need to "teach" yourself a $3200 lesson? This makes no sense to me. You don't like the instrument and there are bad feelings between you and the company--just return it and move on.

Well, because Weber makes a great sounding mandolin. And the workmanship is above average when compared to Kentuckys and the like. The mandolin retails through Weber for $3200, and one like the advertised one on their site is worth that, in my opinion. I don't really know what one with low grade unmatched wood is worth, when compared to the advertised model; but the difference between the two would be the cost of my lesson. It certainly isn't a $3200 lesson by any stretch of the imagination. It is a valuable instrument. Maybe their advertisement should show a picture of unmatched low grade wood on the back. Then there would be no confusion.


See it before you buy it.

[Loren Franklin]

Problem solved in my opinion, eating the cost of shipping can't be that bad. It's better than keeping it and being bitter.

There is a difference between disappointment and bitterness, Big T. I don't think there is any way a mandolin could ever make me bitter. And it's not your opinion that matters in this purchase, it's mine. And my opinion is that I'll get over it and it won't matter. I am actually more concerned with the crows eating all of the cherries off of my cherry trees every year. That's enough to make a man bitter.

[Loren Franklin]

I recently had a related--but very different--experience. I, too, purchased a Weber octave sight-unseen, and it arrived a month ago. I looks to be the exact model pictured above. But my finish and setup are first rate. There's nothing special about me--I didn't do anything to deserve this great instrument. But sometimes you can buy sight-unseen and it works out really great.

Good for you. My finish was above average, and the set up was bad, the back was made with unmatched, low grade wood. I am glad for you that yours was good.

You say you didn't do anything to deserve the instrument? I must take issue with that part of your statement, KD. Did you work hard for the money that payed for it? If so, then you most certainly did do something to deserve it.

See it before you buy it.

[Loren Franklin]

The advantages of a cool approach before and after the purchase is what the lesson of this episode really seems to be.

Yes, hindsight is 20/20.