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Thread: How to improvise on Mandolin?

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    Default How to improvise on Mandolin?

    What is the best thing to keep in mind to improvise on the Mandolin ( bluegrass & older country) major scales, pentatonic scales, arpeggios, licks, etc. I play by Ear only, I play the melody and am trying find a way to vary the melody, any information would by appreciated. Jim

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Try to take what the pennywhistlers do in Irish music and translate that to mandolin... If that makes any sense. You could also borrow another whistling technique and add accidentals (higher or lower than the note being played,) trills, and turns. Might help, might not Good luck Jim!
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    I may be old but I'm ugly billhay4's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    If you play by ear only, play notes that sound right to you.
    If you're willing to learn a little theory, play notes within the scale the melody is in, and, further, within the chord that the backup is playing at that particular point in the song.
    Look for spaces in the song into which to put these notes.
    That's all I know.
    Bill

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    Registered User Laird's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Don't be too quick too abandon the melody. Juice it up with some slides, pull-offs, and double stops, a little tremolo on the whole notes, but the old-timers I know would rather hear the melody coming through whatever you're doing than some fancy improvisation.

    If, on the other hand, you're playing newgrass or jamgrass with others who dig that kind of thing, then all bets are off. Even then, I'll still start with the melody, then slip into the runs and flourishes that I'm comfortable with, but before long I'm in deep space looking for Jerry and the boys.

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    That is a straightforward and fair question, Jim. There may not be a simple answer. Years ago I had a great guitar teacher who helped me improve my skill at improvisation on that instrument. He approached it as a series of skills that could be developed and refined over time with study and practice. These include scales, arpeggios, the techniques of hammer-ons, pull-offs, slides and slurs, note bending (less relevant to mandolin, but tremolo would be a good substitute skill in the mandolin world), memorizing fiddle tunes (to deeply embed the phrasing and bits of melody into muscle memory), learning solos note-for-note (to internalize the way that great solos make a musical statement with beginning, middle, and end). There are probably some great soloists who built their chops up mainly by ear, playing and practicing enough that the fretboard pathways opened up for them and they developed a rich musical language. But I expect that most of the real contemporary masters - Grisman, Reischman, Bush, Thile, Lester, Lawson come to mind - understand how major and minor diatonic and pentatonic scales overlay with chord progressions to create the rich melodic solos they create so effortlessly (or so it would seem). A little theory really does go a long way. There is a book/CD publication that covers this topic in a lot of detail. Maybe you can find some helpful information there.
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    The most realistic answer is to spend as much time as you can listening to, transcribing, and learning by heart the solos of people that you would like to sound like. Start with mandolinists but don't limit yourself to studying mandolin solos. It's very demanding work, and it will take you some time to develop any facility with improvising if you don't have any previous experience, but that's what it takes. You will need to transcribe and learn at least several dozen solos to develop the skills you will need. It's hard work, time consuming, but absorbing and rewarding. Working on scales and arpeggios will give you the basics and is certainly worth the effort to do, but won't get you anywhere with developing an improvisational style of your own.

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    Mediocre but OK with that Paul Busman's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Listen a lot.
    Pick a tune or two that you really like, and improvise it in your head or perhaps by whistling. You can do this while you're out walking, driving, etc. I often find that really nice ideas occur to me when I'm far away from any instrument. If I keep at it, I remember them when I get home and can actually play them. Once they're firmly in my head, it's pretty easy to get them into the instrument.
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    All of this is good advice. I, too, am struggling to get to a level of fluency that will allow me to improvise without thinking about it, and I am concentrating on learning tough tough solos from good artists. The goal is not just to be able to replicate, note for note, a far better player's accomplishment, but to drive my own playing up to a level that will let me reach for notes and progressions and riffs and sequences automatically.

    Doing this is a lot easier in the digital age, when great, affordable software like The Amazing Slow Downer allows me to dial down the speed of any digital file to a speed that I can play along, and gradually work up towards the elusive 100% speed mark (that sometimes remains beyond me for a very long time). Countless hours of playing the same three or four seriously challenging solos have helped my brain and fingers work together in a way that I could only hope for a few months ago.

    ron

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Howard View Post
    What is the best thing to keep in mind to improvise on the Mandolin ( bluegrass & older country) major scales, pentatonic scales, arpeggios, licks, etc. I play by Ear only, I play the melody and am trying find a way to vary the melody, any information would by appreciated. Jim
    Check with Pete Martin at Petimarpress.com as he should be able to give you some valuable advice and he may post here if he reads your thread.

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    Registered User russintexas's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    I find that singing the melody to myself while soloing helps me play a counterpoint part and keeps my phrasing well grounded.

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    Registered User Trip's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    you just cant teach improv......you just have to go play with lots of people and let the hours of practise seep out of you and into the jam......I had a very accomplished player/frontman tell me that he is really just another average player, but he decided not to try to play it like everyone else and that was his key to musical success(otherwise he would have just been another 3rd rate Nashville backup player).....and encouraged me to do it my own way(but study and practise the classic trad songs) and find my own style...

    and "the biggest thing".......write your own music, that is the best way to truly develope your own style......if you wrote it, you must be playing it right....ha!

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    I'm currently working thru The Mandolin Picker's Guide to Bluegrass Improvisation by Jesper Rubner-Petersen (Mel Bay). His teachings are based on chords and scales in a very simple step by step progression. It begins by learning the simple basics of the scale then moves on to pentatonics and arpeggios. Early in the book you begin writing and playing basic improvisations. I've learned quite a bit so far and would recommend this instruction.
    Lee Hill

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Hi there

    Still a beginner myself and only playing with my perfect pitch and chords to accompany, I looked about for similar topics to be addressed. Though you are into bluegrass and not jazz, I found just listening to jazz mandolin at jazmando.com interesting in getting one to think about improvisation. Though I suspect this is not all that helpful for a bluegrass and country player?

    Vanillamandolin

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    I have also found, when playing chords, just to experiment with things like 7th notes and adding notes to chords here and there. hHowever, that is of course chords and not the melody. The affect is pretty interesting just the same.

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Cannot agree more about the listening thing. I often listen to a song, and deliberately add and play with the notes of a melody in my head. I do this with chords also.

    Best of luck

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Jim - It sounds like you & i are in exactly the same boat.I can play a lot of tunes pretty well considering i've only been playing mandolin for 7 years,but they are what i term 'exact' pieces ie.you learn the tunes as closely as possible & play them that way.I like to keep as close to the 'classic' instrumentals as i can, because folk know them & like to hear them that way. My impro.trials are when i'm playing intros. or breaks in a song. The way i'm doing it is to use my 'ear training' to learn where the 'sounds' are on my mandolin neck. I've explained on here a few times that although yes,they are notes,you hear them in your head as 'different sounds' on the fingerboard. Ok,when you play the sound you hear in your head,the fret will 'name the note' for you. It's really a matter of trial & error as is all 'ear playing' as you know,but the more you do it,the more you'll hit the right 'sound' first off. Then, it's a matter of hearing what you want to play in your head & getting it onto the mandolin.Again,that's practice & nothing can replace that,even the very best do it.The great thing is that every small piece that you learn,is a stepping stone to the next piece & it gradually builds up. Another thing,when you're practicing at home,don't be afraid to push yourself.Try things that
    simply come to you on the spur of the moment - it might work,& if it does great. If it doesn't,there's nothing lost, but keep trying,keep the things that work as part of your own bag of tricks.
    One thing that i've found very useful indeed,is to use I/net radio to jam along with.You don't know what's coming up next & it certainly keeps you on your toes,
    Good luck - Ivan
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    Registered User Nick Gellie's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    I would try Mike Marshall's mike arpeggio workout for mandolin (Homespun series). It gets you to play arpeggios in major and minor keys in 1-4-5 progressions that are commonly found in music - wealth of information to be had there. Some very handy tips to play on the tonality of each chord. Lots of different rhythms to play along with to. You also get to see and feel how Mike plays different rhythms as well.

    Highly recommended.

    Nic

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    Destroyer of Mandolins
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by TheArimathean View Post
    Try to take what the pennywhistlers do in Irish music and translate that to mandolin... If that makes any sense. You could also borrow another whistling technique and add accidentals (higher or lower than the note being played,) trills, and turns. Might help, might not Good luck Jim!
    It's so odd that this would be the first response to the question. When I'm not playing mandolin I'm playing whistle. I even earn my living with those two instruments. All the improvisational concepts common to Irish whistling translate beautifully to the mandolin.

    It's no coincidence that at the Chiff and Fipple website (the Cafe of the Irish whistle world) the mandolin is the most often recommended string instrument for whistle players wanting to expand their horizons.
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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    All of the above answers are valid and helpful.

    I found that the best "mental structure" for me to use is to put my index finger on the tonic of the key (initially) and have an awareness of which scale tones are in each chord used in the song (usually I, IV, V of course). As the chord structure progression occurs, I'm trying to play the melody and make sure I hit one of those 'arpeggio' notes when the chord changes occur. That's the initial skeleton of the improv solo. Then adding other 'inbetween' notes to decorate the melody more as the tune progresses.

    That's my initial approach, then you have to hear in your head where the song takes you, but be sure that some of those basic points of hitting an arpegg. note somewhere around most chord changes still gets in there most of the time.
    Oh, always start and end with enough melody that people know where you are. People really expect that.

    I'll admit that I cheat on the "open" keys of G, A, D, and just play freehand 'cause I'm used to doing that, but the structure above works well for 'closed keys' and up the neck.
    That's my story.
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    its a very very long song Jim's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Double stop, Gliss, arpeggio, trill, slur, slur, trill, double stop. There you go, works every time
    Seriously experience and letting your ear guide you with all the tools/methods you mentioned. Some tunes just beg for a pentatonic passage and on others it just seems trite. The feeling you put into it is really the key , play it like you mean it and get as many techniques available to you as you can so you have a wide variety to use. Emulate the sound of players you like and as many have suggested the melody can be a good place to start.
    Jim Richmond

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    I listen to, and can`t stand a lot of pickers that improv, they learn some scales and whatever and they play them in every song thus making most of their music sound the same....I do very little improv and when I do I make sure I don`t play more than one song in that key before I move to another key....I have listened to pickers for years that are considered "great" by an audience and to tell the truth I can`t tell what it is that they are playing so don`t be too quick to want to do a lot of improvising, a lot of real bluegrass listeners don`t like it....

    Willie

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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Willie View Post
    I listen to, and can`t stand a lot of pickers that improv, they learn some scales and whatever and they play them in every song thus making most of their music sound the same....I do very little improv and when I do I make sure I don`t play more than one song in that key before I move to another key....I have listened to pickers for years that are considered "great" by an audience and to tell the truth I can`t tell what it is that they are playing so don`t be too quick to want to do a lot of improvising, a lot of real bluegrass listeners don`t like it....

    Willie
    They are just bad improvisors, sometimes called wankers.

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    Registered User Pete Martin's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    The first thing to try for non improvisors is take the first 3 notes of the major scale and improvise using just that (for a D major scale the D string open, 2nd fret and 4th fret, the notes D E and F#). Don't worry what it sounds like, just get used to "making up" things on the fly.

    When that is comfortable, do the same with the first 5 notes of the scale (D E F# G A). Then on to one octave.

    After you are not afraid to improvise, the best thing you can do is transcribe and learn your favorite players solos. You learn how they think and how they solve problems, as well as learning the language of the music you play.

    I've transcribed and learned several hundred solos by fiddle and mandolin players (now for Jazz, horn, guitar and piano) over the years. I use licks and more importantly strategies learned in these all the time and am very glad I learned every single one. If I hear something I like, I still transcribe and learn it. It really isn't that hard. Try it!!
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    String-Bending Heretic mandocrucian's Avatar
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    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    you just cant teach improv......you just have to go play with lots of people and let the hours of practise seep out of you and into the jam
    ??????

    • 1) Learn the melody
    • 2) Interim stage(s) between improvisation of a "new melody/idea" based on the chords, and playing the melody: Learn to "embellish" the melody
      • a) Add connecting pitches between melody notes (adjectives, adverbs),
      • b) insert extra notes around melody notes which don't really change the melody,
      • c) play with the timing of the melodic phrases;
      • d) add "prefix runs" and/or "suffix runs"
      • e)...etc. (combining "embellishment" techniques)

    • 3) Improvisation


    = = = = = = =

    Embellishment process


    I had a dog.

    I-I had-had a d-d-dog.

    I..............haddadog.
    (Shatnerian rhythm)

    I..HAD.......... A...... dog. (Shatnerian rhythm #2)

    I had a black dog

    I had a black and tan dog

    My dad and I had a shaggy dog

    Once upon a time I had a black shaggy doggy
    ("prefix run")

    I had a dog that loved to chase cars ("suffix run")

    Once upon a time, years ago, my bro and I had a big black shaggy doggy that ate the neighbor's cats (note vomit)

    = = = = = = = = =

    Improvisation:


    I want to buy a mule

    A wookie I wish to buy

    Dwee bop de booda booda doodle dwap!!!



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  35. #25

    Default Re: How to improvise on Mandolin?

    Scales,scales and more scales.

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