Strap button location

[mandobassman]

I just purchased a new J Bovier A5 mandolin. I want to add a strap button, preferably to the neck heel. My previous mandolin, a Breedlove, had specific instructions about where the strap button should be located on the neck heel. The Breedlove has a bolt-on neck and the J Bovier has a dovetail joint. I don't know if this difference in neck construction makes a difference or not. I don't want to drill a hole where it might create a weak spot. Can anyone with a dovetail joint tell me where is the best place for this button. I will put it on the side of the body if necessary, but I would prefer to put it on the neck heel. I have contacted Jeff at J Bovier and, so far, he has not responded.

[Pete Braccio]

This is just a guess, but the directions that you found on the Breedlove site for locating the strap button should work pretty well for any mandolin. Not only does it clear the bolts in the Breedlove neck, it locates the strap button in a place where it won't hit the truss rod. That is the only thing that you have to worry about with the J Bovier (since the neck joint is wood and glue).

Pete

[Ivan Kelsall]

This is where i placed a strap button on my 'once owned' Weber "A" style.I don't like buttons on the neck,as they get in the way of my left hand when playing up the neck. However,these days i much prefer the 'no button' way of doing it as per the pic.of the Collings mandolin - a thong running under the fingerboard extension,
Ivan

[Patrick Sylvest]

I have also done well with the loop under the fingerboard method.

On my three acoustic guitars, I've installed strap buttons on the neck heel myself, preferring this over the headstock loop method.

Electric guitars have strap buttons. Why not acoustic guitars and A style mandolins? Luthiers are the ones who know their instruments the best and could best position these useful little buttons in just the right place (underside of the body, near neck heel?) It seems to me that something decorative and functional would be a welcome addition to all of us as this topic is revisited over and again.

[Astro]

I just went through this with my Eastman MD305 A style. The best position depends on your anatomy and especially whether you have broader or narrower shoulders. (narrower for me ). It also depends on how much you are willing to fight the mando to keep it in the right position while playing. Finally it also depends on your mandos weight distribution (how neck heavy).

I have low tolerance to wrestling instruments into place and I like them to balance out in neutral position as much as possible.

I tried the "tie through the headstock" but didn't like it. It shifted the mando too far to my right and the string through the headboard was always a nuisance to me and it put lateral pressure on my posts. I tried various paths through the headstock and didn't like any of them.

I tried the wrap a leather shoelace under the fretboard but didn't like it either. The balance was off as it became too headstock heavy.

So I began to experiment with button location on the neck heel considering like the picture above. But with that as a point of attachment, my Mando then leaned away such that the bass side tipped away from me, fret board became hard to see as it face slightly down, and I had to apply counter pressure while playing to keep the fret board facing neutral. I have tried guitars like that and hate wrestling with it. Taylor, and many guitars, moved the button for that reason.

So I moved the the button location around the corner on the treble side of that spot and further up the neck. Whalla. The perfect spot for me. That little extra torque induced here prevented the mando body from tipping away from me. Its still a little neck heavy here but the friction of my strap on my shoulder counters gravity enough to hold everything in neutral position while I play.

For those lucky to be broad shouldered, I think going through the headstock wins for them because the headstock balance is neutralized and the mando doesn't shift too far to the right for them.

My advice: Before you drill, get a strap and a shoelace and play around with the different attachment points to find the most position neutral for your body and your mando.



Addendum: Placing the button here was perfect for me, but might interfere with accessing the very end of the fret board for some people. It hasn't bothered me yet and I can still fret everything to the end of the fret board but others may find it gets in the way if chording up there. I should only hope to get that good and if I do, and if it bothers me, I'll just remove the button. Buttons are just as easy to remove and the tiny screw hole easily filled. No big deal on an inexpensive instrument and not much of one on an expensive one either. Don't be afraid to move the button to a better place. Playability is way more important than an extra tiny screw hole.

[mandobassman]

The thing is, I already know WHERE I want to put it, I had it in that exact location on my Breedlove. It is definitely where I find the best balance. I just want to make sure it is safe to drill there in a dovetail joint. This is the first A style body I have had with a dovetail neck joint. Any other mandolin I have had with a dovetail was a F model and it came with a strap hanger. With the Bovier, I think it's safe to put it where I had it before, Just wanted to get some opinions.

[multidon]

In my opinion you should have no problem at all putting the strap button in the location you want. It should not adversely affect any properly done wood to wood joint. There are only two problems to consider. One is if there is a bolt in the joint. If you are certain it is only wood and glue then the only other thing is grain. The side of the heel puts the screw against the gra8n so it is stronger and less likely to split the wood. If you put it on the back of the heel-and I understand some like it there- it is with the grain and not as strong with a risk of splitting the wood. Of course properly done you should be ok anywhere. The biggest problem with most people is the get the hole drilled either too small which splits the wood withe the screw acting like a wedge or too big which leads to inadequate and possibly stripped threads.

If you go to the Stew Mac Web site and click on Trade Secrets Archive then look for Issue 55 you will see Dan Erlewine go over the pros and cons of all the popular strap button locations on a guitar and goes over the procedure. Although meant for guitar much of it applies to mandolins also.

[mandobassman]

Thanks Don. That's exactly what I suspected. I don't think I'll have any problem.

[Jim Broyles]

This is where i placed a strap button on my 'once owned' Weber "A" style.I don't like buttons on the neck,as they get in the way of my left hand when playing up the neck. However,these days i much prefer the 'no button' way of doing it as per the pic.of the Collings mandolin - a thong running under the fingerboard extension,
Ivan

I actually can't stand this location. To me it makes the strap hang weird and allows the instrument to flop forward. Placing it on the treble side of the heel of the neck balances the mandolin a lot better IMO. I have had four guitars which came with the button located on the back of the heel - an Epi SG, an Ibanez AW30, a Danelectro 59O, and an Epi SJ-200. I relocated every one of them but the SG. If I could figure out a place to put it on the SG I would move that one, too. On the two acoustics I put the button on the bottom of the heel. The Dano's went on the bass horn like a normal electric guitar. I hate the strap button on the back of the heel.

[mandobassman]

I'm not fond of that location for the same reason. I played a mandolin once that had it located there, and at one point, I bent over just a little bit and the whole mandolin rolled forward and felt like it going to fall off. I certainly like the treble side of the neck heel as well. Best balance. Right now I have it tied around the headstock. I had never done that before and had always seen people suggesting this. But I find it throws the center of balance off and makes me play with my arm back farther because the center point is now over the fingerboard area instead of the mandolin body.

[terzinator]

However,these days i much prefer the 'no button' way of doing it as per the pic.of the Collings mandolin - a thong running under the fingerboard extension

Yup. Enlarged photo for your enjoyment!

[Ivan Kelsall]

Having the strap button on the heel of the mandolin,imparts not 'turning moment' at all on the mandolin - it can't,the weight of the instrument is acting in a straight line downwards. If you have the button on the underside of the neck,the the strap creates a 'turning moment' causing the instrument to rotate forwards, as it's trying to pull the mandolin over onto it's face from the underside.
It's simple enough to try. Place the mandolin on it's side with the back towards you with the strap fitted, & then pull the strap upwards.The mandolin should rotate forwards onto it's face because the weight is not acting in a straight line. If the button is on the heel,you'll simply lift the mandolin up without any rotation other than that of the body rotating laterally downwards,
Ivan

[Astro]

I have tried it on my mandolin and on my guitar.

In both cases the button on the back caused them to rotate outward.

Button on the side of the heel (treble side) fixed the problem.

Most acoustic guitars these days that Ive seen that have a heel button, put them around on the treble side for this reason.

I agree in theory it seems counterintuitive. Maybe some mandos or straps are different.

But the reality for me is as I described. I know many others have found the same as me.

[mandroid]

Welcome back , "where do I put the strap button?" Topic ..

[Paul Kotapish]

Larry,

You should be fine with the strap button on the treble side of the heel on a dovetail joint. Shouldn't be anything but wood in there--just drill a proper pilot hole and ease the screw in slowly without forcing it. The only time I'm concerned about strap pins in that location is with bolt-on necks where you might encounter a bolt or anchor if the location isn't precise.

The treble side of the heel is the only spot that works for me on the mandolin--or the guitar. Any other location tends to feel unbalanced, and I've never been aware of the button or strap as any kind of impediment when accessing the stratospheric regions of the fingerboard.

I even put strap pins in that location on my (gasp) F-style mandolins. I know a lot of folks think that the scroll is some kind of built-in strap hanger, but I hate the way that feels and I don't like obscuring the primary ornamental feauture of the quirky art-nouveau design.

Good luck.

[mandobassman]

That's exactly why Breedlove had such specific location instructions. It put the screw directly between the bolts for the neck joint. For now, I'm going to try the wrap around the neck and under the fingerboard method that Ivan showed above. I've never done it that way and It might just work out fine. Have a gig Saturday night so that will tell the real story. If it feels comfortable, then I won't have to drill any holes.

[Jim Broyles]

Having the strap button on the heel of the mandolin,imparts not 'turning moment' at all on the mandolin - it can't,the weight of the instrument is acting in a straight line downwards. If you have the button on the underside of the neck,the the strap creates a 'turning moment' causing the instrument to rotate forwards, as it's trying to pull the mandolin over onto it's face from the underside.
It's simple enough to try. Place the mandolin on it's side with the back towards you with the strap fitted, & then pull the strap upwards.The mandolin should rotate forwards onto it's face because the weight is not acting in a straight line. If the button is on the heel,you'll simply lift the mandolin up without any rotation other than that of the body rotating laterally downwards,
Ivan

I guess this has been your experience. It hasn't been mine. The mandolins always, without exception, pitch forward from the top and will not hang straight.

I missed another guitar I have with the back of the heel button - an Epiphone Es-339. That one hangs okay, but I don't really like how the strap twists. I'd rather have it on the bass horn, but I'm afraid there may not be a block inside the body at that location, so I'm leaving it alone for now.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jim - I suspect that this will be so for different instruments depending on how they're built. If an instrument is concentric about it's lateral centre line ie. it's exactly the same on the bass side as it is on the treble side,then in theory it 'should' hang straight down.
If it's heavier or there's some other difference in concentricity,then of course it won't (maybe). Before i decided to put the strap button where i did on my "A" style,i used a couple of pieces of Velcro stuck on with double sided tape on my strap & the mandolin at the heel position & the lower side of the neck just to see what the difference would be.I wasn't going to put the button on the neck anyway,as i play all the way up the neck & it would get in my way,but i did it just to see what happened & it did 'roll over',
Ivan

[Jim Broyles]

Ivan, I really have no desire to carry this discussion very far, but I ask you to think of one thing: the lateral centerline you are referring to goes down through the middle of the instrument, not along the back where the heel button is located. To me there is no logical disconnect as too why the instrument would "roll" forward when hanging by a strap connected to the bottom and heel buttons. The existence of the bridge, tailpiece, strings and neck attachment, by logic, reason, and physics HAS to make the front side of the mandolin heavier than the back. I'm glad yours hangs straight. None of mine ever did.

[Ivan Kelsall]

Jim - My thoughts were that if an instrument was heavier on one side than the other,maybe by the addition of an armrest,then it would have a tendency to rotate forward if you leaned forward. The lateral centre line was re. the concentricity of build of an instrument,one side in respect to the other.I didn't mention back or front. An armrest would make the instrument 'eccentric',as all the things that you mention above,are equally positioned on either side of the lateral centre line,the armrest isn't - Finis !,
Ivan

[Jim Broyles]

But the center of gravity has to be on a plane slicing through the side of instrument, not be on a plane located up against the back. An armrest would not only make the upper (bass, for a righty) side of the mandolin heavier, but it would also make the front of the instrument heavier. For your hanging button to be in the gravitational center of the mandolin it would have to be a little over an inch toward the top - in other words, right where I like it - on the treble side of the heel. Trust me, it doesn't get in the way of playing up the neck.

[mandobassman]

Anyway! I tried the mandolin at a gig last night. Just for kicks I tried the strap around the body and under the fingerboard method. I was pleasantly surprised that it worked very well. I will probably leave it like that with no need to drill any holes. Thanks Ivan. I didn't think I would like that but it worked great.

[Jim Broyles]

Hey, bassman, you should know that Paul strapped his Hofner bass like that. The Hofner bass strap they sell is made to go around the body under the neck riser.

[mandobassman]

Hey, bassman, you should know that Paul strapped his Hofner bass like that. The Hofner bass strap they sell is made to go around the body under the neck riser.

I just use a boot lace. Always have. Never could see spending a lot, or much of any, money on a mandolin strap when a boot lace works just fine.

[Jim Broyles]

I like it in theory, but they hurt my shoulder. They cut into my skin because they're so skinny, even though the mandolin is pretty light.