OT: 2nd Instrument- Classical Guitar vs Banjo

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

The mandolin is and always will be my first love, no doubt there.

But I'm looking for something to pick around on during those periods of frustration with the mandolin. My question is this; which leads better into the next one? Does learning learning clawhammer first make for an easier transition into finger picking a nylon stringed guitar or vice versa? Or does it not matter? Or are they that different that it doesn't matter?

PS: Tichenors' song "A Place in the Heart" is partly responsible for this, even though it has nothing to do with either. But do yourself a favor and go give it a listen. RIP Butch.

[Tomy Plunk#er]

I love my classical guitar it has large gaps between each string allowing alot of room for error. Do you finger pick now?

Great avatar! Cinderella story! Lol

[Jim]

I guess what kind of music you want to play would be the deciding factor here. I play a bit of classical guitar and I don't feel it led to being able to play clawhammer better, though I only have a banjo in my hands at friends or my sons. I do enjoy playing nylon strings occasionally for a change but the space between the strings is a bit clumsy for my small hands.

[Jesse Harmon]

I think guitar and mandolin compliment the different sounds when going from one to another. I love the mellow richness of the nylon string harmonies even more when picking it up after playing mandolin for a while and I love the sound of the mandolin for a change switching back. I think the back up for mandolin is much more blending on nylon string classical and compliments the mando, and more competing on the banjo. As far as the transition goes I wouldn't guess that learning clawhammer would help much, better to go right to the neck of the classical and get the awkward period out of the way.

[JGWoods]

I play mandolin, play clawhammer banjo, and fingerpick the guitar- steel string, folk blues style.
I've played banjo the most for about 40 years. I can't imagine anything more different than playing mandolin, and I can't really see where it leads to anything else, maybe it helps in timing for hammers and pull offs but otherwise clawhammer is pretty much unto itself as a way to get music out of an instrument.

The only instruments that segue one into another are mandolin and fiddle. Other than that, flatpicking guitar and mandolin have techniques in common where one helps the other. I certainly became a better guitar flatpicker after a few years of playing mandolin

[farmerjones]

Not simply to just take a different tac, may i suggest an electric mandolin. Possily one with only four (light) strings. A different animal, but not a departure from the tuning.

[Michael H Geimer]

Q: Classical Guitar vs. Clawhammer Banjo
A: (e) All of the above.

Comes down to musical style. I think of classical guitar as a more melodic instrument than clawhammer banjo, which seems more rhythm based in its approach. Either might help you out, each in a different way.

Classical Banjo (with gut strings to give you that mellow sound)?

[Dobe]

I took to banjo pretty easily (long ago) so that would be my vote. Recently picked up an old frailer; Tons of fun.
Guitar players are a dime a dozen.
Cathy Moore w/ BanjoMeetsWorld is a great place to start for the old-timey style:


Don't forget Ukes, also making a comeback. The Underdog of the instruments:

[catmandu2]

My question is this; which leads better into the next one?

Classical guitar technique (and flamenco) exploit as much of the right hand as possible (in flamenco, it's common to use all five fingers). I started with classical guitar beginning at about age 12. Subsequently picking up other styles of fingerstyle playing on other instruments (banjo, ukulele, charango, doublebass, harp, various folk-style guitar) was easy (intuitive) after a foundation of classical guitar. Classical and flamenco guitar technique comprises an approach of finger independence--same as a jazz drummer does with arms and legs--allowing us to deploy the fingers in any fashion required by the music, and provides as wide and comprehensive a technique foundation for study of any other fingerstyle approaches

If you really want to devlop your right hand as much as possible, I recommend flamenco guitar: it comprises many highly refined technical devices that make the solo guitar the most rhythmically and harmonically expressive stringed instrument. John McLaughlin considers flamenco technique supreme of approaches...I agree


There are many uses of music and applications of playing. One factor which may influence your pursuit is: what kind of music do you want to play? Or, what do you want to accomplish by your playing? Folk-styles around the world employ many of the same right-hand technical elements...ukes, charango, frailing banjo, doublebass...even executing arpeggios on harp feels like a wide-spaced classical guitar in the right hand. These skills are highly transferrable. IMO, flamenco employs the most of them--in the most varieties. But it is arduous study. You can execute some of these devices on other instruments--to good effect, and have fun

[Eddie Sheehy]

I think you'll find that a Tenor Banjo is an easier transition - specially one tuned GDAE (Irish Tuning). Also, Octave Mandolin or Bouzouki area nice balance...

[catmandu2]

No question that going to another plectrum-style instrument (from mandolin) is easiest, given no prior experience or other variables. In inquiring specifically about classical guitar and clawhammer banjo, I infer that OP is thinking about a fingerstyle instrument. WRT "how these may correlate" with mandolin (if that is what OP is asking)...the important factor to consider is: there are two disparate approaches to playing fretted stringed musical instruments (fingerstyle and plectrum). Where there is left-hand commonality among all the fretted strings, the right hand concept is distinctly different between FS and plectrum approaches. There are some approaches that integrate the two techniques to varying degree (thumb-lead, Carter style, Ralph Stanley-style two-finger picking, etc)

Does learning learning clawhammer first make for an easier transition into finger picking a nylon stringed guitar or vice versa?

[SincereCorgi]

I'd pick up the guitar... the amount of learning material is gigantic and very well-developed, and it opens the door to dozens of fascinating styles from all over the world. It will improve your playing and thinking on any other fretted instrument.

[Eddie Sheehy]

"My question is this; which leads better into the next one? Does learning learning clawhammer first make for an easier transition into finger picking a nylon stringed guitar or vice versa? Or does it not matter? Or are they that different that it doesn't matter?"

The fingerstyle of Banjo and Guitar are radically different - that high G on a banjo precludes the bass-thumb picking that is a must on a Classical guitar. Also the rolls which are afeature of banjo-picking don't really translate to Classical guitar. I think going to a banjo as a prelude to Classical guitar would be counter-productive...

[catmandu2]

...going to CG after banjo is a little like going deep-sea fishing with a can of worms, 6 lb test line and a size 18 hook: there isn't a lot of transferability

[Eddie Sheehy]

Exactly, and going from CG to Banjo is the same road in the opposite direction...

[AP8221]

Nylon Strung Banjo? Best of both worlds...

[catmandu2]

Exactly, and going from CG to Banjo is the same road in the opposite direction...

Well, not in my experience. The finger independence sought and acquired through CG/flamenco study enables great facility for anything (everything else I took up fingerstyle-related was greatly enabled/facilitated by my CG/flamenco foundation...even the technical approaches specific to the re-entrant tunings--there are some flamenco techniques that employ the thumb in similar fashion to clawhammer and other frailing devices...three-finger "rolls" too)

Several years ago, I wrote here (or perhaps it was banjohangout) about my findings of the similarities between CH banjo and flamenco technique (I'm now working with charango more than banjo, but find similar commonality among these). Whereas flamenco guitar employs "thumb lead" more, it also uses downstroking (rapping, frailing) of the first finger--which is the foundation of technique for any number of "primitive" lute-like instruments...ngoni, akonting,charango, ukuleles, etc

[Eddie Sheehy]

Well, not in my experience. The finger independence sought and acquired through CG/flamenco study enables great facility for anything (everything else I took up fingerstyle-related was greatly enabled/facilitated by my CG/flamenco foundation...even the technical approaches specific to the re-entrant tunings--there are some flamenco techniques that employ the thumb in similar fashion to clawhammer and other frailing devices)

@OP:
Is the above your Classical Guitar experience? Or are you just using a Classical Guitar to finger-pick folk songs using repetitive patterns?

How about your Banjo proficiency? Or are you looking at taking up either instrument from scratch?

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

Great responses so far-thanks everyone. This has been an interesting read and something to think about.

To answer some questions; I have zero experience with guitars and find steel string acoustics to be boring. (No offense). But I love the sound of nylon strings.

I have about a total of one hour of play time on a banjo and I can play a version of when the saints go marching in that is so bad it would make anyone with ears want to jump in the bayou.

I've thought about trying a gut stringed banjo also and if i go the banjo route it wont be a traditional banjo I don't think. Thought about electric mando too, but I just can't get into electric instruments for some reason. I also have no set musical style that I really want to learn. If I get the guitar it will be your standard issue classical stuff at first and banjo it would probably be more folk and world type music, some old time. Mostly just trying new things out on either one at first.

My only reason for wanting one of these two is to give myself something different to mess around with when I'm hung up or frustrated with the mandolin. Also a look at music from the vantage point of a different instrument- I can see that being a good thing- on several levels. I know the playing styles are vastly different, I'd like to learn both the classical guitar and banjo (hell, id like to learn the mandolin, too) so I was just wondering if learning one would first would foster an easier transition to the other. I've kicked around thoughts of other instruments, like fiddle or piano also. I have a violin, but thats a no go because I also have ears and so do my neighbors.

So I've narrowed it down to one of these, I just can't make up my mind which, so I was hoping that there might be some small detail that would push me in one direction or the other. It's really only going to be a part time instrument so maybe I'm putting to much thought into it. Quite possibly the best move for me might just be selling everything I own, getting a nice set of spoons and hanging out at the bus station til I can rattle off Chopin's entire catalog.

[catmandu2]

Especially for casual playing, it's hard to beat guitar for variety; so many musics and styles of playing worldwide--it's quite the ubiquitous instrument. Some rudimentary alternating-bass right-hand technique can provide the foundation for a lifetime of satisfaction on guitar--it provides the vast majority of recorded "folk" music; some basic skill provides a wonderful vocal-accompaniment instrument in the 6-stringed guitar

Going beyond that--perhaps into solo instrumental playing, or jazz approaches--requires more elaborate technique: the guitar is capable of immense expression (my flamenco mentor used to refer to it as a "miniature piano"). Commonly, we hear from folks who never moved beyond the sort of dilettante dabbling that the guitar sort of encourages--by its capacity to make simple picking patterns sound good and satisfying

Perhaps consider acquiring a $100 second-hand Yamaha nylon-string guitar, even if you do also pick up a banjo. Why not experiment?

I don't know how analytical you care to be about this. Personally, being a lifetime fingerstyle player, I find the matter interesting: the major differences between basic fingerstyle giutar and (clawhammer) banjo are--banjo technique is based on dance rhythm, and the common basic alternating-bass patterns of guitar are based on song forms. There is great fun to be had playing with all the devices invented to render kinetic dance music on a solo stringed instrument--it's kind of like the "drumming" of stringed instrument playing--(to say nothing of the harmonic polyphony afforded--very handy for jazz, classical, and any music where polyphony is involved)

[Clockwork John]

I think you'll find that a Tenor Banjo is an easier transition - specially one tuned GDAE (Irish Tuning). Also, Octave Mandolin or Bouzouki area nice balance...

Tenor banjo, tuned Irish was my first thought as well, but then maybe I'm biased. I just picked up my second tenor and I find myself playing that more than anything else lately. But then again, I also play guitar, and I also have a 5-string banjo. Haven't quite been able to wrap my brain around the extremely different tuning and playing style. Here's some food for thought: I see $50-75 classical guitars on craigalist every day. I picked up my 5-string banjo for $125. You could, if you were so inclined, get both and go from there.

[ColdBeerGoCubs]

I've thought about getting both, but I feel if I do that it will be spreading myself a bit thin, or not really being able to devote even the minimum amount of time to the two side instruments. But who knows, I just might do that. Classical guitars seem to be rather cheap and abundant.

The thought of tenor or octave has passed through my mind many times, but I think I want to step a bit further away from mandolin than that. Plus, its easy to lose a few hours of your time when you just start speed picking fiddle tunes on a tenor.