Are Gibson mandolins like Nike sneakers?

[Jordan S.]

I would guess, based on my completely unscientific and arbitrary analysis, that the price of a Nike basketball shoe is 75% shoe quality and 25% "Nike" name.

What ratio would you assign to a newer Gibson mandolin?

Just curious really. Are they worth what they cost? If you covered the Gibson inlay on a new Gibson mandolin, what would it be worth?

[JeffD]

Its a ridiculous question. The only real way to judge what they are worth is what they cost. The answser is yes, they are worth exactly what they cost, because you can't get one any cheaper. If you could, that would be what it costs.

If you are asking if a mandolin of comparable quality (sound, playability, build, etc.) can be had at a lower price, well you will get all kinds of answers.

If you are asking if you could find a mandolin with which you could be happy for the rest of your life at a lesser price, well, it depends. How much would you miss not owning a Gibson.


Sure there is hype. But it is hype born of a certain reputation, which is, in general, earned.

[Cron-Z]

Hype, reputation, age/history, subjectivity... and so many more variables.

[JeffD]

I bought my '23 Gibson A2 snakehead many years ago. I did not know what I was doing at the time, and had help from a guitar player. I really did well and even today that mandolin is one of the best I have ever heard or played. (Especially since I had the set up tweaked!)

When I went to the Gibson shop in the Opry Mall in Nashville, and looked at modern A9s, they were awesome. And their sound and the sound of my vintage A2 were of the same family.

We have lots of options today, at all price points, that really weren't available years ago.

[JeffD]

I would never base a decision on hype. More importantly, I would never base a decision on avoiding hype. I would get something that made me happy, at the price I could afford, and absolutely ignore everyone's opinion as to whether I was responding to hype or not.

[Jordan S.]

Its a ridiculous question.

Ouch! Well, it was just a conversation starter really. I'm always curious about the actual VALUE of something. If I can get a shoe equal to the quality of a Nike for less because it doesn't say Nike, it's something I'll consider. I thought it might be an interesting conversation to have here regarding mandolin quality/price/value.

Sorry it wasn't interesting to you, but thanks for your insight.

[Gary Hedrick]

I may be a little cruel with my response but here it goes............Why ask such a question....you know the answer (or rather have your own answer to this question concluded) before you ask it. All this is going to do is stir up a bunch of crap and the "answer" will still be that value is in the eye of the beholder....

There have a been several hundreds of these threads over the years here and well...................

[AlanN]

For those of us who have been around here for any length of time, this topic seems to surface regularly. And from those who have not been around here for any length of time.

Imo, does not beg for a response.

[Jordan S.]

I may be a little cruel with my response but here it goes............Why ask such a question....you know the answer (or rather have your own answer to this question concluded) before you ask it. All this is going to do is stir up a bunch of crap and the "answer" will still be that value is in the eye of the beholder....

There have a been several hundreds of these threads over the years here and well...................

Ouch! Well, it was just a conversation starter really. I'm always curious about the actual VALUE of something. If I can get a shoe equal to the quality of a Nike for less because it doesn't say Nike, it's something I'll consider. I thought it might be an interesting conversation to have here regarding mandolin quality/price/value.

Sorry it wasn't interesting to you, but thanks for your insight.

[Denny Gies]

Well, well, well..........don't we all have fun. How many different ways can we discuss this obsession of ours?

[Jordan S.]

For those of us who have been around here for any length of time, this topic seems to surface regularly. And from those who have not been around here for any length of time.

Imo, does not beg for a response.

Yep, I'm new to both the mandolin and forum. Sorry to have bothered you.

[JeffD]

But what is the

actual VALUE of something,

really what is it. Its an aggregate of what folks are each individually willing to pay. If you are not willing to pay as much as most people, thats fine. Most people consider the value to be higher than you. If most people considered the value to be less, the company would lower the price to sell them.

No it is an interesting question, and I think you have a realistic curiosity about the topic. I just think that many people, and perhaps you, think about these things the wrong way.

I saw folks haggling over an antique toy train set once. It went something like this.

"Your price is too high."

"Make me an offer."

"See, here in the price book. You are twice what the book says."

"Well I can't sell it to you for the price in the book."

"But that is what its worth, it says so in the book."

"Its worth what I can sell it for, and I can sell it for more than that, to someone else if not to you."

"I can't afford your price".

"Make me an offer."

"I am not paying more than whats in the book."

"I can call a buddy of mine on this phone, and sell it to him for more than the number in that book."

"But I want it."

"Make me an offer."

...

[AlanN]

If I had a dollar for every time this (and variants) has come up, I could buy a BC pick (with the shipping...)

Jordan, no attack on you, but really, it's not a conversation most care to have here....but, I could be wrong.

[allenhopkins]

...I'm always curious about the actual VALUE of something...

"What is a cynic? One who knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing." -- Oscar Wilde

In our capitalist society, the value of an object is generally seen to be its market price. Gibson apparently sells every mandolin its current limited capacity produces, at the price that it sets for that instrument -- I'm not getting into "dealer discounts" or special deals or whatever. You know what Gibsons are selling for, clearly. So, the value is what people are willing to pay for them.

You're asking about something completely different, the subjective value -- what's it worth to you? You may play a Someotherbrand F-99 that you think is "just as good as a Gibson" and costs 25% less, and say, "Hey, this F-99 is just as good a value as that F-9 Bubba's playing!" You think that Nikeknockoff sneaks are just as good as Nikes -- great, you should buy them, save yourself a bundle. We've had many a Cafe post along the lines of "My Kentucky sounds just a good, and it's half the price!"
Fine; get the Kentucky, spend the money you save on Nike sneaks or whatever.

There are many very credible alternative brands to Gibson, some that provide comparable instruments at lower prices. Try 'em all out, at least as many as you can get your hands on, and do your own "cost-benefit analysis." You may end up with that "overpriced" Gibson, or not. It's your choice based on your preferences, not a universal guide to "value."

When Gibson mandolins stack up at the factory and the dealers' shelves, because no one wants to pay their prices, then we'll know that there's a consensus that they're overpriced, not a good value for the money. Hasn't happened yet...

[sunburst]

I've said this before several times, but here it is again:
If we can learn to see quality and hear quality, if we can understand our own preferences, if we can develop our eyes and ears to hear and see the details of sound and of design, structure and workmanship, if we can learn to judge quality on our own, we can find value among the many mandolins available for sale.
There are quality mandolins available at very many price points and ,IMO, some are overpriced and some are underpriced. The name on the peghead contributes to the price of many, more often raising the price than lowering it.
There are many people who shop by name and reputation, there are people who shop by tradition (Grandpa and Dad had a brandX, my favorite musician plays a brandX, I'm getting a brandX!), there are people who shop for status, there are people who shop for value and there are people who shop for resale value. If we are shopping for value, we need to learn to see, hear, and feel quality, and most of all know what we want in order to find value.
I appreciate your idea of trying to start a conversation along these lines, but in case you hadn't noticed, "Gibson" can be a touchy subject around here for several reasons. There are strong Gibson supporters and there are strong Gibson detractors and then there are the rest caught in the middle.

[Jordan S.]

...in case you hadn't noticed, "Gibson" can be a touchy subject around here...

Yeah, wow! It was like I yelled "Fire!" in a crowded movie theater!

[Phantoj]

If you want to quantify the amount of $$$ attached to the Gibson name, compare the price of a Nashville-made Flatiron to a Gibson of the same era, made the same way in the same factory by the same people.

The way I see it: if you can get a used A9 for around a thousand bucks they can't be too big of a ripoff...

[Chip Booth]

It's a fair question if you don't have a lot of mandolin experience. Major manufacturers such as Gibson, Fender, and Martin have all been through good periods and bad, and the quality can vary depending on the instrument and what department it came from.

Recent Gibson mandolins are generally well thought of. They are a quality product built by a relatively small team of specialized builders. As such I think they make a good product. I think that compared to some other major manufacturers of mandolins such as Collings or Weber they may be a little higher in price, and that is probably based on reputation and brand name as much as anything else.

Compared to the guitar world I would say current Gibson products are similar to Martin's current guitar line from the Vintage series up. Gibson isn't making any cheapo models of mandolins, even the stripped down versions are similar in construction to the higher end models. There is a difference in wood choices, and that is very important, and likely there are some hidden shortcuts compared to the higher models, but overall the major difference is aesthetics. When you get to the Master Models which cost 15K+ street price you are looking at a different level of quality, maybe similar to Martin's Authentic series. In my experience this is a very nice mandolin, as you would expect.

Do I currently play a newer Gibson? Nope (I do have a '24 oval hole Gibson though), and I can't honestly say that I want to particularly. I have yet to play one that really speaks to me, and I have played and owned some of them from well respected periods that were dogs. I have also played some that were very nice, but nothing that really blew my socks off. (For reference my main mandolin is a Gilchrist.) The amount of choices we have now with major companies and incredible small builders has made the Gibson brand a lot less relevant to me personally.

[neil argonaut]

In defense of the OP - though this kind of subject has been discussed loads, I've not seen it put exactly in that way before, comparing to something like nike, and the thread title makes it very easy for those not wanting to discuss such a subject again to avoid it; It's already got a few constructive responses, and I've seen plenty of other topics discussed to death, and questions asked which a quick search could answer; so I'd tend to say ask away.

[allenhopkins]

No argument with Jordan's initial post, and no Gibson-defensiveness here. I wouldn't pay the price for a new Gibson, but that's because my current mandolin needs are satisfied by more affordable (for me) instruments, such as the Eastman DGM's that I bought recently. I do have a number of vintage Gibson mandolins, ranging back to pre-1910, and I acquired them partially because I loved their history, partially by reputation/collectibility/prestige -- and partially because, when I started buying mandolins 40+ years ago, there weren't a lot of quality instruments other than Gibson available. Much different now.

The exception I took is that the term "value" in the context of this thread, is almost entirely subjective, as several others have pointed out. Are Gibsons well-made quality instruments? No one would quarrel with that. Are they better than, worse than, different from Collingses or Webers or Breedloves or the products of individual luthiers? That's up to each purchaser to decide.

So many of the other responses are along the lines of "My Gibson is a great value, I've heard that some aren't." OK, fine, but can we expand our individual experiences to a useful generalization about all new Gibsons? I'd be pretty reticent to do so.

[journeybear]

Not really. Gibsons don't offer much traction on hardwood floors and don't come in enough sizes, and Nikes don't provide a resonant tone, and are impossible to intonate properly or keep in tune.

[Jordan Ramsey]

Hi Jordan, welcome to the cafe There's a learning curve for all of us here on this forum, you just have to have a thick skin and learn how to decipher what's (read who's) good and ignore the rest. If you've never played a Gibson.... I'm in Denver at Swallow Hill Music Association every Wednesday all day until around 9pm, and I've got a pretty nice Gibson Sam Bush model that you're more than welcome to come pick on to help assess for yourself. I'm usually less busy during the day, and more so in the evening. PM me for contact, or just stop by. Also, I believe Harry (Folklore Center) has a couple of vintage oval hole Gibbys, and Kit at the Pickin' Parlour in Arvada usually has quite a few nice mandolins. Take some field trips and check them out for yourself.

[JeffD]

I was not defending or even responding to "Gibson", but to the way of thinking which, in my opinion, is way too worried about "hype" and getting "ripped off".

If I bought an instrument at what I considered a fair price that I could afford, and later found that had I been more savvy I might have got the instrument for significantly less, I would not feel ripped off. I paid what I thought it was worth to me. I'm done with the purchase and on to enjoying the instrument.

I guess, for me, no part of enjoying the instrument involves getting it as cheaply as possible, or avoiding hype, or not being taken, or perceived as taken, or trying to impress anyone with a brand name, or impress anyone by avoiding a brand name. I can't see what any of this has to do with learning how to play "Sarah Armstrong's Tune" or making a more beautiful tremolo.

But Jordan, I was, perhaps, a little too abrupt. I meant no offense and, having read many of your posts in the past, I would not want to inhibit you from posting and contributing in any way. I am sorry.

[Gary Hedrick]

Well perhaps I was too harsh because you are a newby and apparently are sincere in your question.

Like Allen, John and Chip have said above...in one way or the other. There is a perceived value and there are actual values. When it comes to teens, 20's and 30's mandolins Gibson IS the best value IMO. and perhaps into the 40's but in the 50's, 60's, 70's they were crap instruments for the most part BUT there was little competition so by default I guess they were the best value.

Now come the mid 80's until today the issue isn't nearly as clear. Example: Is a DMM for $14k a better value than an Ellis for $11K maybe maybe not......is a "The Loar" for $1.5k a better value.....If all you have to spend is $2k then the question is moot....

I have owned a bunch of good instruments.....is a $180k Loar a better value than say a $9k Kimble .....well to me no but I don't have the bucks to go after the Loar so I may be a bit influenced in my perspective.

You want good bang for your buck.....look at some of the late teens and 20's Gibson A models......they will keep their value....were well built....sound very good to great and play well....

Keep asking question and I promise not to bite your head off next time

[Jordan S.]

Thanks, Jordan. I appreciate that. I'd love to swing up to Swallow Hill and pick with you a bit. Do you give lessons there? I'll PM you so we can connect. And again, thanks!