Loud Mandolin for Irish Trad Sessions

[Bertram Henze]

I also pay attention to where I sit, if it can be helped. A wood-panelled corner at your back, so you can project out, perhaps sitting a bit higher than the other musicians, really makes a difference. If I get to lead off a tune, I sometimes stand up, which also helps the sound stand out.

Geometry is a very important factor. I found out that the session will turn out much better if I sit on the left, not on the right of a certain guitar player (when you play an OM, the guitar is your nemesis, frequency-wise) who tends to run away on me with the tempo, strumming with all his might if he can't hear me clearly. If I arrive early, I pick a seat where he can't get on my left; if I am late, I find a place in the periguitarum.

[epicentre]

Yeah, Eddie ... you're probably right. Have a friend visiting me this summer who's gonna bring a tenor banjo for me to try out. That just might be the ticket.

I was wondering about a resonator mandolin, Allen, but wasn't sure if it was "kosher" for a session. Haven't seen one at a session yet, but hey ... I haven't been going lately because of the weather.

A 15 fret Tenor Banjo tuned GDAE might work for me. I can stretch a little, but really don't want to venture into new fingering for tunes, especially at my age!

Ah, the harshness factor. Good point.

Found this over at the Mandolin Store .... nice tone and only $700 above my price point.

http://www.themandolinstore.com/scri...idproduct=8912



As always, lots of good suggestions to ponder. Thanks!!

Resonator mandolins are rarely seen in Celtic sessions; likewise mandolin banjos. A good 17 fret tenor banjo tuned GDAE, is pretty much always welcome, and won't be drowned by the fiddles. A "good " one is not cheap. Try a few first. Best of luck.

[mandroid]

Just find My F sound hole Mandolin is harder for Me to hear.. while playing it

My oval hole flat top is (the late) David Hodson's Djangolin, I can hear it better .

[allenhopkins]

Resonator mandolins are rarely seen in Celtic sessions; likewise mandolin banjos...

With all due respect to this perspective, and also to the "don't play chords/harmonies/countermelodies in a real Irish session," I have been to plenty of them where mandolin banjos were played, less often resonator mandolins (but not many people have resonator mandolins), and where mandolinists (and mandolists, and octave mandolinists) played chords and harmonies and countermelodies.

No one was expelled from these affairs, no one got the "stink eye" (that was reserved for bad bodhran players), and the ITM Police were absent. There are those who would exclude mandolins entirely from Irish sessions -- as well as guitars, banjos, accordions, harmonicas etc. -- as being "non-traditional," and would limit instruments to pipes, harps, flutes, fiddles, whistles, and bodhrans. Thankfully there seem to be many places where the "guidelines" are less strict.

I won't re-embed the YouTube animation clip of the clueless newbie who wants to batter the bodhran and sing The Unicorn, but there's a broad spectrum between that person, and total-strictness play-melody-only don't-bring-an-instrument-you-wouln't-have-found-in-Ireland-a-century-ago because-we-and-we-alone-understand-Irish-music sessions.

There are friendly and accepting venues, where those who appreciate this wonderful music, and make a good and sensitive effort to participate, are welcome. Even if their contributions aren't exactly what everyone else is doing. That's where I'd go, and take my "loud mandolin" -- whatever its construction -- along to play there.

[Bertram Henze]

If you can play the tunes it does not really matter how you produce the tone.
There is this session I am attending - one man has a mandolin/guitar doubleneck instrument and a looper just in case the real guitar player doesn't turn up, go figure.

[Dan Adams]

I was in Ireland last June and played in a couple of sessions with my 83' Flatiron 2M. Plenty of volume from the pancake style. The mando also carried enough volume for busking on the streets of Kilarney and Galway. Dan

[LongBlackVeil]

Interesting that flat tops and Flatiron comes up so much. I would expect arch tops to be the loudest at sessions. I'll check some out this spring. This will be a fun thread to check out again in a year or so after I've done some purchasing and experimenting! The cafe crowd never fails to come through with great information!

So what did you end up getting? Did it work for you?

I'm sort of at a crossroads myself right now. I consider the mandolin to be MY instrument (though I do play mediocre fiddle) I'm preparing to go to my first session but I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy it if I can't at least hear myself. I have a weber yellowstone and a gibson a junior. I think I'll bring the weber but I'm not sure. If neither one works, I very well may end up going out and getting a national rm1.

If the national really works in sessions as well people say it does, I could see it becoming the "the standard" for irish mandolinist. Like the f5 is for bluegrass

[foldedpath]

I'm sort of at a crossroads myself right now. I consider the mandolin to be MY instrument (though I do play mediocre fiddle) I'm preparing to go to my first session but I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy it if I can't at least hear myself. I have a weber yellowstone and a gibson a junior. I think I'll bring the weber but I'm not sure. If neither one works, I very well may end up going out and getting a national rm1.

If the national really works in sessions as well people say it does, I could see it becoming the "the standard" for irish mandolinist. Like the f5 is for bluegrass

I sure hope not.

I understand the appeal of volume, but I'm not sold on the timbre (yet). I like the woody sound of a traditional mandolin if the session isn't just completely out of control for volume and numbers of people playing. At least don't give up that fast, before trying your Yellowstone in a session and see how it works.

I play my Lebeda F5 (redwood top) in a Scottish/Cape Breton/Irish music session along with two pipers on smallpipes and border pipes, and 5 or 6 fiddlers. My mandolin may recede into the background on tune sets were the entire group knows them well enough to play with gusto, but my personal criteria is that if I can hear myself, and I can kick off a tune (and I have no trouble with this group), then that's good enough.

Remember, a resonator mandolin is just a small step down the slippery slope to a tenor banjo....

[JeffD]

I depends on the jam and the venue. For an out door (front porch) jam with other loud instruments the RM-1 is my first choice. For an indoor small venue jam with not a whole lot of people, I think the Weber or Gibson will be just fine.

The sound of the RM-1 is not like a typical resonator. It is far more woody and mandolinny. Of course its not a carved arch top sound, but its not as brassy as, say, those Recording King resonator mandolins.

And - you don't have to play the RM-1 loud. The key is that you can if you want. Its really that you have huge dynamic range available to you.

Here is a fun side effect. An RM-1 will sound at normal mandolin volume with a light touch. Play normal sound loud, but play light sound normal. So, at normal volumes you can relax your picking hand and go to town at speeds previously untested, if you so desire.

If you can play the tunes it does not really matter how you produce the tone.

Amen to that.

[Bertram Henze]

I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy it if I can't at least hear myself.

No doubt about that - you'll feel like a mouse that has fallen into an empty milk bottle. No acoustic feedback from your instrument => no confidence => you'll think you've completely messed up the tune even if it was perfect.

[pheffernan]

I'm preparing to go to my first session but I'm not sure how much I'll enjoy it if I can't at least hear myself. I have a weber yellowstone and a gibson a junior. I think I'll bring the weber but I'm not sure. If neither one works, I very well may end up going out and getting a national rm1.

If the goal is to hear yourself, then I'd bring the Gibson. I always feel like I hear more out of an oval hole when I'm actually playing the instrument. If the goal is for others to hear you, then I'd suggest the Weber as its f holes should project sound away from you better. And if the goal is to make sure everyone hears you, well then I'd urge you to consider the National RM-1. I just put a fresh set of John Pearse strings on mine yesterday and enjoy it every time I pick it up and play it.

[LongBlackVeil]

Well I'm planning on buying a new mandolin soon for sure, I'll be going to fiddlers green which is a very irish friendly store, so they should have some good input on what might work.

I'm considering bringing both the gibson and weber and seeing which one works better. I feel like my weber is loud for a weber and my gibson is quiet for a gibson. The weber seems louder to me even when in playing position, and it gets louder and louder. The gibson has a ceiling where it doesn't get any louder

[Bertram Henze]

The weber seems louder to me even when in playing position, and it gets louder and louder. The gibson has a ceiling where it doesn't get any louder

Any valid camparison can only be made in a noisy session situation, with punters talking, fiddle armies squealing, boxes bawling, you name it. You don't get that in a quiet shop. The same instrument can change dramatically during a session; happened to me last night, when from one set to the next my OM suddenly started booming through the din like a bomber squad - this morning I measured the action at the end of the fretboard, and it has risen visibly: a humidity effect, so lots of sweating musicians are indispensible for the test.

[mandroid]

+ the sound bounce back from Hard walls, with a bunch of fiddlers in a small room, doesn't help.

[LongBlackVeil]

If the goal is to hear yourself, then I'd bring the Gibson. I always feel like I hear more out of an oval hole when I'm actually playing the instrument. If the goal is for others to hear you, then I'd suggest the Weber as its f holes should project sound away from you better. And if the goal is to make sure everyone hears you, well then I'd urge you to consider the National RM-1. I just put a fresh set of John Pearse strings on mine yesterday and enjoy it every time I pick it up and play it.

glad to hear you like the national, ill definitley be checking one out regardless. In a perfect world i would just pick up the national and the Pava (or other a model) that im dreaming of. Going to have to settle for one or the other though, i just feel like i would probably only use the national for the irish sessions where as i could use a good a style for all the styles and jams i attend.

Ill just have to see how it plays out i guess

[bart mcneil]

I would suggest that you may want to consider seriously a banjo. I move back and forth between my mandos and my banjos and for volume my mandos can't match my banjos. Normally my problem is to play softer, when playing one of my banjos. Steel strings, a plastic head, and finger picks or a flat pick are all you need with a banjo.

I find my Big Muddy mando pretty loud but a banjo, even without a resonator, can be ear splitting. But it can also be a nice sounding instrument. After years of avoiding banjo I finally bought one and I now have several, and love them all.

[Eddie Sheehy]

1. Tenor banjo
2. Resonator
3. Bagpipes

[Bertram Henze]

Is the dark side louder? No, no, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive.

I should mention, that in a session 3 weeks ago, I was asked to play softer. The man who said that is a banjo player; he is also an impersonation of Waldorf and Statler. Trust in your own instrument and your own technique.