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Thread: General Pick Quesiton

  1. #1

    Default General Pick Quesiton

    As a recent convert to Mandolinism, I am curious about picks. As with I imagine most of the folks here, I started with a guitar and both finger picking and flat picking. I got used to using picks that generally medium gauge and have some amount of flexibility. When I started the mandolin, I choose thicker guitar picks but ones that still had flexibility. I am noticing that many of not most mandolin people use MUCH thicker picks. It seems to me at first thought that thicker picks might be harder to play. I Imagine that this is not the fact as a LOT of people use them. Is it a matter of projection/loudness? Is it easier to be faster on the fretboard with a thick pick? Just why a really thick pick for the mandolin?

  2. #2

    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Try one and find out.

  3. #3
    Registered User Pete Summers's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I think the higher string tension and stiffness of mandolin strings requires a thicker pick than a guitar. Thin picks tend to sound flabby, IMO.

    And by the way, a lot of us came to mandolin from fiddle, which is a natural jump considering that the fingerboards on the two instruments are essentially the same.

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    coprolite mandroid's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    You get a dynamic range depending on how hard you grip the pick, and 'sforzando' of stroke with it...
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    Registered User mandobassman's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Think, in general, most mandolin players that use thick picks, myself included, use them for two reasons. One is volume. The heavier pick seems to drive the strings harder. The mandolin has much higher tension than a guitar does and a much smaller body and the thicker pick produces more volume. Second, it provides a warmer and deeper tone than a thinner pick would (that also depends on what it is made of). If you are coming from guitar, it might take a little bit of adjustment time to get used to it, but once you do, you might just find yourself using the thicker pick on guitar as well. I do.
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    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I find quite the opposite Larry. 'For me',i find that thick picks tend to sound rounded & a mite dull. They take most of the treble away from either of my mandolins. Also,using a thick pick (again,'for me') is a bit like playing the piano wearing boxing gloves.I like to feel the strings against the pick. I find that i have much more control over the volume that i get if i use a thin(ner) pick. I've tried the Golden Gate & Dawg picks & i just don't like them. Even going up from 1.0mm to a slightly thicker pick removes some of the top end,that's why i use a Dunlop 500 1.14mm pick on my Weber which can sound a bit bright on the E strings, instead of my usual 1.0mm Wegen picks.
    Again,as in all things,it's what suits us & our instruments that carries the day.If we all thought the same/played the same/used the same,the Cafe wouldn't have got off the ground !!,
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  7. #7
    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Quote Originally Posted by mandobassman View Post
    it provides a warmer and deeper tone than a thinner pick would (that also depends on what it is made of).
    Quote Originally Posted by Ivan Kelsall View Post
    I find quite the opposite Larry. 'For me',i find that thick picks tend to sound rounded & a mite dull. They take most of the treble away from either of my mandolins.
    These two show both sides of the coin for me.
    I am nearer to Ivan in this spectrum, for two reasons:

    - I play an OM, which would only mumble unintelligibly with a thick pick, while that metallic grrrrranggggg sound is what I want.
    - I play in sessions where I am in constant danger of being acoustically drowned in guitar strumming - I need the treble to stand out.
    - I am getting old - the high frequencies are the first to go from hearing.

    Therefore, it's the extra-sharp 0.72 Clayton Spike for me. That keeps me playing happily.
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  8. #8
    Destroyer of Mandolins
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I think a lot of players use thick picks, but probably just as many don't. The 'thick pick' discussion just seems to come up more. Like Ivan, I use a very thin pick compared to what many players would prefer. I've tried the thick ones and get a dull, muted tone. To each his own.
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    Oval holes are cool David Lewis's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I gave up pick on guitar - but when I started mando, really had to adapt to pick... I use dunlop tortex or jazzmando picks. Use what feels best. And experiment.

  10. #10

    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I started out 35 years ago on guitar with very thin Jim Dunlop nylon picks (the gray ones - the thicker the pick the darker the gray). Over those early years I kept migrating toward the thicker, darker picks - they seemed to provide better control and tone as my playing style and picking technique evolved. I finally switched over to Fender heavies at some point. When I took up mandolin a couple years ago I got sucked into the boutique pick rabbit hole by reading pick threads on the forum. Now I use my thick mandolin picks on the guitar.
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  11. #11
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Let the pick do the work

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  12. #12
    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Many of you are claiming that a 'higher tension' is what makes a thick pick important.
    Are you sure that there is really a 'higher tension'? See this thread.

    Comments welcome (not meaning to hi-jack the thread).

    Maybe we're talking about "perceived tension" or something.
    Also depends on gauge of course. Here's the 'Elixer' chart
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    but that's just me Bertram Henze's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Quote Originally Posted by Philphool View Post
    Many of you are claiming that a 'higher tension' is what makes a thick pick important.
    Are you sure that there is really a 'higher tension'? See this thread.
    Reading that thread reveals that the absolute tension comparison depends on the gauges used, so the mandolin can end up with higher tension, BUT...
    we are talking about much shorter strings and the task of picking/pressing down two at a time. J74s may look rather slack when strung across the Niagra Falls and walked-upon, but those few inches on your mandolin are harder to move.
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    Registered User Tom Wright's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    I like Fender heavy (351 style) in premium celluloid, a little more sparkle in the tone than the other celluloid versions. I use the medium, classic celluloid for electric playing. I can get a dark tone by turning the pick to angle away from flat, and tilt away from the point as well for a very round attack. I find tone is also affected by whether I hold the pick far from the end, (brighter, allows the material to add its tone) or if I cover it almost completely with index and thumb (darker, material less important).

    A mandolin with a given E size, i.e. .011, will have higher static tension for even a single string than a guitar with the same gauge, played above the 12th fret. The mandolin scale of 14" or so is equal to a guitar scale of 28" (normal 25" or so) compared at the 12th fret octave. Also, doubled strings will resist the pick more. Add to these factors the missing string length behind the 12th fret in the guitar example, which would stretch slightly or move a little sideways at the moment of attack and feel less stiff. The deflecting pick will cause a greater tension increase at the moment of attack in a short string than in a long string like a guitar.
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    Registered User Bill Baldridge's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    You can spend $40 for a pick (I have a few of those.) or sometimes get them for free at the music store counter. If you resist the $40 option you can try a lot of different sizes, shapes, thickness, materials, and colors for the price of a BlueChip. I like my mandolin to sound "woody" and have moved to thicker and thicker picks as the years have gone by. In my experience, a very thin pick does not have enough stiffness and mass to move the strings and obtain much volume, and the low end sounds like a cheap transistor radio from my youth. At the other end, a very thick pick softens the highs and my mandolin sounds like it is being played through a sub-woofer. Everyone's ear and taste is different. Somewhere in that pile of picks is the pony you are looking for. When I am playing in a large jam I often move to a less thick pick to hear myself above the din. I also have a Three Banjo Rule: when the third banjo shows up I leave.

  17. #16

    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    A few months ago I had the chance to attend a workshop taught by Andy Statman. He started by having each of the eight or so participants play a few bars of anything so he could see where we were starting out. When I played my A3 using my usual Golden Gate, he stopped me and asked what pick I was using. I told him, and he handed me a Fender extra heavy (white) and told me to try it. This produced a much brighter sound, bringing out treble that was lost with the thicker, rounder Golden Gate. It seems that pick thickness, roundness (vs pointedness), and material all make a difference. Since that workshop, I've stayed with a celluloid, extra heavy pick (heavy would be too light) with a standard Fender guitar pick shape. Andy changed my whole sound in the first five minutes of the workshop! If I was looking for a more woody, mellow tone for a particular tune, I'd use the Golden Gate. (Obviously I operate in the cheap pick zone. I'll leave the premium pick discussion to others.)

  18. #17
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    On the mandolin little things seem to make a whole lot of difference. Pick thickness, pick edge bevel, angle of attack, all make very audible differences. In my limited guitar experience that does not seem to be as much the case.

    The pick transfers the energy of your arm to the bending of strings. If the pick flexes, some of that energy is going into pick flex, so doesn't make it to string bending.

    On guitar its easier to move the strings, so its ok if some of the energy is lost to pick flex. In fact it may be better. I don't like the sound of my mandolin picks on my guitar. I use a medium pick on the guitar.

    On mandolin I started out with a medium and moved to a heavy after several years. Never going back. YMMV. Try it and see.

    Oh, and I am yet another who did not start on guitar. I went from woodwinds to mandolin. In fact I never played guitar. In fact, where and when I grew up everyone and his brother was playing guitar and either singing Neill Young songs or James Taylor songs, in either case trying to sound like they had much more worldly experience than their meager years could possibly hold, or five chord strum strum versions of Beatles, and I chose the mandolin to play a stringed instrument that was distinctly not a guitar. I didn't appreciate guitar until very recently, and a tenor guitar at that.
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  19. #18

    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    Me like the thick picks for guitar and mando.

  20. #19
    Registered User Ivan Kelsall's Avatar
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    Default Re: General Pick Quesiton

    The only 'thick' pick i've ever tried that i quite liked was a Wegen 2mm thick pick,similar in shape to the Wegen M100 picks,but thicker. It sounded fine,but the rounded edges simply didn't produce the 'bite' that i like. Currently i use a 1.0 mm Wegen Bluegrass pick on my Lebeda & a Dunlop 500 1.14mm thick pick on my Weber,
    Ivan
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