In Ear Monitors

[Laurence Firth]

Has anyone used an in-ear monitor system? Any opinions on this technology will be helpful. If you used one can you tell me the equipment setup? Mic's, amps and how the in-ear monitor system patches in to the overall setup?

Thank you

[sbarnes]

i use in ear monitors....i can't tell you the brand name or how they are wired into the system (soundman does that stuff)...i can tell you that some nights they are wonderful and other nights not so much...this is not bluegrass but loud country/rock (i'm the keyboard player)....i can also tell you that late in a 4 hour gig they get kinda painful (not loudness - just fitting in the ear painful - we don't have the molded to fit each individuals ear kind - just the generic small, medium, large sponges that fit onto the buds)...i've been using them for about 3 years or so - when they are good, they're great....when they are bad, they're still about like using floor wedges....

[Charlieshafer]

Has anyone used an in-ear monitor system? Any opinions on this technology will be helpful. If you used one can you tell me the equipment setup? Mic's, amps and how the in-ear monitor system patches in to the overall setup?

Thank you

The in-ear monitor is sent a signal through an aux send on a mixing board. This is the same as a regular monitor, and hopefully the board is good enough that you can control each individual channel, like guitar, banjo, whatever may be used. That way you can keep the volume of each respective instrument low. Don't ask for the house mix. You may think you want this, but depending on the room, the sound guy may need to cut back on some channels, add a little more to others, eq some things, to get the sound right out in front. This may not be the sound you're looking for in the monitor. Most in-ear systems will have their own little control box which either sends a wireless signal or at least offer some sort of secondary volume control or db cut-off so you don't damage your hearing.

The plus side is that if you're a loud band in a noisy environment, you can hear exactly what you want, assuming the sound guy is good. The down side is that when they're in, it's hard to hear anything but what's in the monitor. People can be talking to you and you may miss the conversation, unless they're talking into a mic that's in your mix.

A fiddler friend has just started using them as she's joined a rock band and her spot on stage is right next to the drummer. For acoustic stuff, most prefer to hear what's going on all around them. I'd say they're your last piece of equipment to experiment with, well after all the microphones, mixers, and stuff, unless you have a hearing issue or stage plot issue and the floor wedges won't work for you.

[Justus True Waldron]

I have somewhat limited experience with them, but I have used them. I personally own a pair of lower end Westone in ears that I have had for 2 years, and I absolutely love them, even just for use as regular listening headphones. Extreme clarity and isolation, and the generic memory foam ear tips are actually pretty comfy and a good fit for me.

I have somewhat less experience with the rest of the setup. My ex-girlfriend's band uses them, and when I used to play with them I used them for a little while. I believe they had senheisser stuff, although I'm not sure what model. They were pretty simple wireless packs with channel selection and a volume knob. They talk to a rackmount unit that feeds them off an aux send like a normal monitor. I used them both with my Westone's and the stock headphones. My Westone's were a huge improvement over the stock in both clarity and isolation. They were a fairly loud group, mostly acoustic but with drums. I was actually playing clarinet, not mandolin, in the group, so I can't comment much for that purpose. I will say that it took a little getting used to hearing myself through the in ears rather then through the air. I started out by leaving one bud out of my ear, eventually decided I did like the extra isolation of keeping them both in. I really did like being able to control the volume, I have pretty sensitive ears and standing near a drummer at gig volume is not my idea of a good time... this did solve that problem mostly. On the flip side I was always nervous my headphone volume was higher than was healthy...

The downside was the stupid wireless packs. Again they weren't mine, but I believe they were in the $800 range for a set. You'd think for that price you could get clear audio, but no. It was always hit or miss. Some days it was good, some days every channel was fuzzy. Eventually I solved that by using a 20' headphone cord I got for $1 on amazon, and just running it right to the headphone jack on the board. That's when the in ears really started to shine, and I could hear everything better than I ever have live except for in a studio. For $100 headphones, a $1 cable and a headphone amp that's really not bad compared to $1000 plus for a wireless unit. The downside of course was that I was tethered...

My opinion is if you have the money for a really nice setup and you want to play acoustic with low stage noise, they can be nice... or if you stay pretty much on one mic, you could go the cheaper tethered route to try it. My personal decision? My band does the one mic thing and uses no monitors. I couldn't be happier, I can't stand those things!!!

[PJ Doland]

Saw a YouTube review of this portable mixer for in-ear monitors recently and it looked like the cat's meow.

[TonyP]

We went that route for a couple of years. For me it was great, the rest of the band struggled. And I don't think you can just be the only one using it and the rest not. I used a 4ch studio headphone amp with cords, as it's really expensive to go wireless. In the long run it was good we didn't make that investment as like I said, the rest of the guys didn't like it and I have enough equipment that needs to find a new home.

The rules on wireless have changed so it can be really tough, and sometimes impossible to find a "clear" channel with a wireless rig now.

The biggest complaint was feeling claustrophobic, because unless you do something like have a mic that brings in crowd noise, it's all just the music. For me it was great, I loved being able to hear everything so intimately. I also spent a lot trying to find good IEM phones. Like was noted, most end up being pretty painful after a while.

Good luck.

[John Soper]

I've used IED (that's in ear devices) in a loud Rock Band context, where we mix a full drum set with electric instruments, acoustic guitar and sometimes mandolin. All of our "acoustic" instruments have pickups thru a variety of preamps into the board. Unfortunately, our Sennheiser wireless system worked only as well as our sound man... like the little girl with the curl, when it was good, it was very very good- you could get a custom mix so that you weren't flailing away on an acoustic instrument because you couldn't hear yourself- but when it was bad, it was horrid- buzzy, muddy, the mix you thought you were getting from sound check wasn't the mix you were getting on stage, and sometimes the wireless channels weren't best fidelity.

The plusses- our stage volume went down, and on a good mix day, you got what you wanted. The minuses- as noted above. It did make us really conscious of the stage volume, and we try hard to get a good mix thru the various monitors during sound check, so that I can key in to the #1 lead and other rhythm guitarist (who are often on the other side of the stage), put an ear plug into my left ear (standing next to the drum kit), and can leave the gig without my ears ringing. You don't always have to turn the amp up to 11...

In my acoustic group, we direct mic our instruments, know where we're going and how to play off the mics- wedge monitors or a Bose system work well for that sound. We still play in one venue where the sound man is clueless, and always have to have somebody with good ears out in the crowd to help us with the house sound...

[Laurence Firth]

Thanks for all this great info. This helps me understand the technology and some of the options much better. I play in an acoustic duo right now. We will be adding a bass player soon. We both sing. I play mandolin and mandola and my partner plays guitar. We play in fairly noisy environments, with little setup time, and little or no sound test or adjustment time. Often the PA system is pretty poor. The guitar is acoustic with a hole pickup and plugs in. I use a mic. I've been thinking of putting together a simple system. One mic stand with all three mics mounted on it with booms. A small mixer, an acoustic amp and the in-ear monitor system (tethered). The idea is we can control the sound mix better for the audience, we have control over our mics (this is especially important to me since often the gigs only have vocal mics available) and we potentially have a better monitor system so we can hear ourselves. Hopefully we can hit the stage and set up fast and have optimum control over our sound.

We are going to test some of this gear out in our local music stores to see if this is actually a practical solution.

I'm grateful for any additional input from my friends here on the Cafe.

Thanks!

[oldwave]

Bear in mind there is a learning curve with IE monitors and the routing from mixing console needs to be correct (prefader). For my small acoustic trio gigs I use a very small stage monitor. For larger venues that are noisy, small amps for the instruments work well with stage monitors for primarily vocals. I don't want to discourage you, I have used iEs and they are excellent in the right environment, but for a group as small as yours I suspect that other means of monitoring may be just as effective. One thing thta in my mind is important for IE and that is a good compressor limiter to protect your
ears if a mic is dropped, or a drunk hollers into it! (it has happened.)

[sbarnes]

one other thing (i forgot to mention)...i miss the interaction on stage - can't hear each other unless it's going through the system and a lot of stuff we say on stage does not need to go through the system....i also miss the audience response....can't hear....don't know if they're booing or applauding....if someone from the audience wants to say hello (or talk just a minute between songs) - can't hear them.....the feeling i get on stage w/in ears is isolation....

[foldedpath]

Ditto what Oldwave just said about making sure your IEM system has a limiter, to protect your hearing in case someone drops a live mic, or you get feedback through the system.

Also, avoid the temptation to use just one earpiece to keep a sense of the room, because that can damage your hearing over time. If you go with IEM's, always use two earpieces. You might want an extra mic aimed out at the crowd and mixed underneath the main mix, if your main mics don't have enough bleed to get a feel for what's going on in the room.

My personal opinion is that IEM's work best when you have a monitor engineer dedicated to running the setup, so that as a performer you don't have to deal with it. It's a little easier for a duo or a trio because there are fewer monitor mixes involved, but remember you still need to set up a custom AUX mix for each performer, so they can hear themselves and the rest of the band in the right ratio. For a trio, that means using a mixer with at least three AUX buses, so make sure your mixer can handle it.

Our duo (and sometimes trio) tries to keep things fairly simple with a fast setup, and I've thought long and hard about going to IEM's. I can keep feedback under control with no problems at our gigs, but it would be nice to ditch the small floor monitors we use, just to make setup and tear-down faster. However, the extra time involved in getting a good IEM mix for every performer would offset the time it take to hook up a monitor. We would definitely need an "audience mic" because we often do weddings and have to respond to the timing of events going on around us ("Oops, should we be starting the processional yet?"). So, I've avoided IEM's and will probably stick with floor monitors for now. YMMV and it might be the perfect solution for your gigs, as long as you know what you're getting into.

[Laurence Firth]

Thank you for the advice foldedpath - It's helpful hearing from others who are also in a duo / trio and how they deal with equipment needs. My main goals are:

1) be able to set up quickly.

2) control the quality of the sound that the audience hears (the PA's in some of the bars and coffee houses etc can be pretty bad - especially trying to mic my mandolin and getting a good sound.

3) Be able to hear each other as we play / sing together. The monitors at the gigs vary greatly and for the most part are never adjusted for our needs - there is never enough time since we are only one of several acts and the shows move quickly.

4) break down and get off the stage quickly.

Goal number (3) is where the in-ear monitor idea came from. I'll give some thought to a second amp to server as a monitor. The main reason I'm giving the in-ear monitors some thought is that the equipment will be easier to carry (as compared with a wedge monitor / amp.

As with any set up I expect to be experimenting for some time before I find the right combination of gear for our combo.

Thanks again.

[Charlieshafer]

Ahhh... well then I think your question gets a different answer. I have little experience with the self-contained PA units like the Bose or Fishman, but I think this is where you should be looking. You'll find lots of discussion on the merits of these units, and they'll solve a very large percentage of your problems at a lower price and probably higher quality. Search the threads, and I'm sure those with more experience with these units will chime in. I'm a dedicated-venue sound guy, so while there are thousands of pounds of equipment, I don't have to haul them and I have complete control over room acoustics and sound. It's sort of cheating...

[almeriastrings]

My personal opinion is that IEM's work best when you have a monitor engineer dedicated to running the setup, so that as a performer you don't have to deal with it. It's a little easier for a duo or a trio because there are fewer monitor mixes involved, but remember you still need to set up a custom AUX mix for each performer, so they can hear themselves and the rest of the band in the right ratio. For a trio, that means using a mixer with at least three AUX buses, so make sure your mixer can handle it.

Absolutely agree with that. I have worked with bands where I do the house - they use their own monitor mix guy to feed the IEM's, they're that critical. They are a veritable PITA to work with in some cases... you need multiple separate wireless channels, and those run from around $1500-$3K per channel, one for each performer. Five piece band, figure on a budget of at least $10K. Don't even think about the cheap, low end stuff where IEM's are involved. Even the good stuff can be hard to get right. It can take an age to get that mix right, and there is no room for error, because that's 100% of what the performers will hear. They'll hear nothing else. The hard-wired route is technically easier, and cheaper, than wireless but there's cables everywhere..just where you don't want them... then, the isolation effect, which is enough to put me right off personally. Tried 'em. Hate 'em. From both sides of the board. Some people get on with them though... I can see the attraction with really loud music and bad venues. I take the opposite approach these days. Don't even use floor monitors myself, but then, we don't pick the kind of stuff where we need them.

PS: I was not going to light the blue touchpaper called "Bose/Fishman" so I'm glad someone else got there first but, yes, that is the what I use personally and for what we do, I remain as happy with that approach as I could be. No separate monitors at all. Very natural sound. Very natural performing space. Less stress all round. For acoustic duos/trios I think they're excellent. Not so if you are more rock/high volume oriented, however.

[mandroid]

Peter Gabrial seems to have it set up Well..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=eMwn_hnoS5Y

[Charlieshafer]

That's a lot of fun. It wasn't until near the end I was thinking about how cool it was watching bald guys float around in circles.

[Tim2723]

Since the Bose/Fishman topic has been breached, I use a Bose Compact for my duo (sometimes trio). A small six channel mixer plugged into the input, two vocal mics, guitar and mandolin, and whatever the third player dujour might have. We place the Bose to one side and have no trouble at all hearing ourselves while playing to crowds of 100 or more in bars. Contrary to popular belief, we can crank some serious volume out of it without feedback. At $1000 for the Bose, it's more affordable than good IEMs since the last thing you'd want is to buy cheap ones. We can be set up and playing 15 minutes from the time the car pulls in the parking lot. The only thing I don't recommend them for is bass. While it can handle the frequencies, bass needs to have its own amp, IMO.