Banjo~Mandolins

[Ryk Loske]

Thanks in advance for ANY help ......

The Love of My Life .. who plays mandolin, octave mandolin and fiddle ... has discovered the "mandobanj" as she calls it. Her retirement is far enough away that i can take my time and find her a nice vintage instrument. I do not want to spend an arm and a leg for the instrument but what i've seen on the web in the past day or two seems within the realm of doable. Doing a search here there has been some help ... thanks for that ..... and my go to poster on things unusual Allen Hopkins .... speaks well of Vega Little Wonders. Any other thoughts~opinions would be greatly appreciated.

I'm aware of the similarity of Irish tenor banjos to her octave and will persue that as well.

Thanks again,

Ryk

[mandroid]

I have a Lil Wonder BM, I also have a GDAE strung uke banjo, [It was in bad shape no tone ring or hooks & plenty of Rust]

It was converted with a bit of creativity to a Spruce Topped melody banjo, with 4 strings..
and a fingerboard slotted for a Mandolin..

A Remo synthetic Fiberskyn head on a banjo uke is another approach,
Gold Tone one source .

therein, may be some mix of the brash presence of a steel string ManJo,
and the softer tones of a Uke , in that 5-ths tuning..

Of the BM's Gibson's Trap door seems the one escalating in resale,
more than the Resonator back sorts..

[David Lewis]

They're actually cheap. I Reckon around 250.00 should do it.

[allenhopkins]

Here's one advertised for $299.

The Little Wonder was, I think, the second least expensive Vega line that had a tone ring; there's a Style K that was a lower model, and that's also an option.

There are quite a few mandolin banjos around, and it seems only the Gibsons and the fancier Vegas (Tu-Ba-Phones) and Paramounts are "pricey." There are a bunch of Coles, Weymanns, Fairbanks etc. instruments that seem to crop up in the $2-400 dollar range. And there are some perfectly acceptable Asian-made Gold Tone instruments for a couple hundred more.

Don't be afraid to check out even the unlabeled instruments, some of which are decently made, and which are usually less expensive since they're not "name brands." I was given a mandolin-banjo, unmarked except for "Levis Music" (the Rochester store where it was sold), and after having a Renaissance Remo head installed and a decent bridge and set-up (about $75 total), it was (is) a good playable instrument. These mandolin banjos were made for individual music stores or catalog sales, probably by the large Chicago manufacturers, and can meet your needs at a very low price.

[Tobin]

Don't be afraid to check out even the unlabeled instruments, some of which are decently made, and which are usually less expensive since they're not "name brands."

I bought one of these a couple of years ago, sight unseen from a Craigslist seller, and had it shipped to me. I only paid something like $25 for it, and I'm glad I didn't put any more into it than that. It was virtually unplayable and sounded horrible. It's a interesting wall-hanger, but that's about it. I have no idea if it was somebody's home build or what, but it was awful. Bringing the strings up to pitch made the frame flex and the bridge looked like it was about to punch through the skin. I never could get the intonation right because the bridge wouldn't stay put; it would slide around on the skin head.

The experience really soured me on banjo-mandolins. But I'm hoping it was due to the fact that it was a poorly-made one. It's the same one shown in my avatar.

[Jim Garber]

The only mandolin-banjo I own and can stand is a Weymann Style 25 with the small pot. This one just went on sale at Bernunzio's yesterday and unfortunately it looks like it is taken. More expensive than most of those (except for Gibsons) but they actually have some tone to them, not just percussive sound. Keep an eye out for these.

[8ch(pl)]

My Vega Style K has a Natural Calfskin Head, which helps with tone. I also have a very large home made bridge on it that I patterned after a photo of an original Vega Mandolin-banjo Bridge. I use very light strings (2 sets of Tenor Banjo strings) and have a Wool Sock, rolled up and stuffed under the bridge , between the head and the Dowel-stick. These measures tend to tame the unruly tones.

I played a new Gold Tone Mandolin-banjo that had a normal size banjo bridge and a Remo Mylar head. That instrument sounded horrid.

Elderley instruments sells Hennik Mandolin-banjo Bridges that are patterned after the Vega bridge from that era. They come in various hights. Some are slightly slanted to allow for the thicker Bass strings. These look like they would be suitable for a restoration.

Weymann originally used a bridge about 4 inches long which had 5 Feet formed by 4 Holes evenly spaced in the center of the bridge, with the feet formed by sawing from the bridge bottom to the center of each hole. The holes were probably 1/4 inch in diameter, more or less. My Vega bridge is also about this length, I made it out of Beech.

Hope this information is of use.

[Jim Garber]

Weymann originally used a bridge about 4 inches long which had 5 Feet formed by 4 Holes evenly spaced in the center of the bridge, with the feet formed by sawing from the bridge bottom to the center of each hole. The holes were probably 1/4 inch in diameter, more or less.

You can see that bridge on the Bernunzio example I linked to above and attached here. Mine actually warped so I have to un-warp it or else make a repro. They are pretty cool because they are actually compensated.

[mandroid]

I got a Bridge with intonation offsets as a spare part for a Flatiron Flat top, It works fine ..

esoterically better if maple rather than Ebony, but it was plug and play, so , it's all Good.

[Ryk Loske]

Thank you all for your input.

Jim's suggestion brings up a thought from the dusty part of my brain. I'll put it this way ... the Weyman looks too small. My understanding of the complaint about 'mandabanjs' is thinness of sound. From larger members of the banjo family i know that increasing head size increases the tonal possibilities. Too ... from what i've read on the web you can 'improve' the tone of a mandolin~banjo by increasing the length of the bridge. But anybody fortunate enough to have the sound of a Brentrup A4 available would probably not put up something really lacking.

I'm leaning towards something like the Vega Allen linked in his post ... primarily because it looks more Lynne. I had seen that instrument while i was wandering around on the web and formulating questions before posting. I had also seen this Vega: http://mandoweb.com/Instruments/Vega...anjo-1931/2616. Any thoughts around resonators on these little guys?

Thank you,

Ryk

[mandroid]

$1,250.00. // rather than the $600 I paid for my open back Lil Wonder,
added to the reflecting back -resonator .. the Tubaphone tone ring is a Hollow tube,
rather than a solid ring.. And you get all those words and art museum references
in the M Bros sales pitch.

You probably have to go to Banjo Hang Out to get any scuttlebut on tone ring differences , they undoubtedly have multiple , conflicting opinions.

[8ch(pl)]

My Style K has a tone ring, made from a piece of round solid steel about 3/8 inch in diameter. I had always thought that the Style K had the skin pulled down directly on the top of the wooden pot. Maybe this tone ring was added later, or perhaps it was a factory error in marking.

Or, am I wrong in thinking there was no Tone Ring on the Style K?

[yankees1]

Anyone have a you-tube of what this instrument would sound like ?

[allenhopkins]

Anyone have a you-tube of what this instrument would sound like ?

Mark Deprez in my band Innisfree makes his own instruments, and he built a mandolin banjo with a full-size (11 inch, I guess) "pot" and resonator. It's as loud as you would want, but not "raucous" or grating, as many complain that standard mandolin banjos are.

Here are Mark and I, with Bernadette Serrano on fiddle and John Kerr on his old Gibson A-1, playing at a St. Pat's party a couple years ago. Sound is pretty lousy, since it's just the mic on someone's little vid machine, but you might get some idea of a full-size-body mandolin banjo.
The tune's On the Road to Boston, and I'm banging rhythm on my Flatiron 3K octave mandolin.

[mandroid]

Check these out .. 'Cello Banjo'
http://www.goldtone.com/products/det...ignature-Model

Elderly: "list $1500.00 ours $1125.00"

[Jim Garber]

Jim's suggestion brings up a thought from the dusty part of my brain. I'll put it this way ... the Weyman looks too small. My understanding of the complaint about 'mandabanjs' is thinness of sound. From larger members of the banjo family i know that increasing head size increases the tonal possibilities.

You may very well be correct in theory but I have played quite a few of these little Weymanns and they all sound better than a lot of larger b-m's. In fact I had a friend who has a larger-potted Weymann and we used to call it the percolator. One thing that might help is that the small headed Weymann has to, of necessity, have a skin head. Perhaps some of the newer (Renaissance and Fibreskyn) heads might mellow out the tone a bit on the harsher ones.

The bottom line is I think you have to try it in person. I bought this one many years ago at a festival because it sounded great. YMMV but if I were you I would get out there and play some and decide for yourself.

[Ryk Loske]

Thanks Jim .....

If i get a Weyman will i be able to play that chord?

Ryk

[Jim Garber]

Absolutely, Ryk ... that is Jethro's demented chord.

[Ryk Loske]

Great!

As user friendly as my Rigel I-110 is ..... it just sounds like knuckles crackin' now!

Ryk

[jtsc]

Has anyone on this thread, or the cafe in general ever played one of the Gibson MB-3 Mandolin Banjo (or banjo mando?) from the '20s? Love to hear how they sound and if this odd-bird can fly.

[allenhopkins]

Never played one, but a bit of Google research shows that the MB-3 went through some major changes in the 1920's, starting as a "trap-door" resonator instrument with a celluloid pickguard, then morphing to a standard resonator "miniature" TB-3, with the "diamonds and squares" fretboard inlays, then progressing to a full Mastertone version, with what appears to be a full-size resonator body.

That's a majorly-sized mandolin banjo, with the arch-top "ping" and "punch" of a late '20's Mastertone. Bet you'd be heard in any jam or seisun with that one.