Bandolim and Cavaquinho

[delsbrother]

Hi all:

Thanks to Scott for the new (?) Bandolim section of eye candy! Being a casual fan of Choro (love to listen to it; can't play it for beans) I've always liked the shape and sound of the traditional instruments.. But I'd really only seen them on album covers and the Carmel Music site.. Until now. Wow. Now I want one of each!

Real bandolims sound so much different from archtops - #a superbright flattop sound. When I went to see Choro Famoso at McCabes, MM jammed with a local guy who had a nice bandolim, and the differences in tone between that and MM's Loar were pretty striking. It's funny how your ear gets trained to hearing one particular sound as being "right" for mandolin. When you hear the two together you realize they're just different. I wonder how archtop "Bluegrass" tone is regarded in Choro circles?

There was a Cavaquinho player in the jam too, but I could barely hear him.. Love to try one.. But where to find one in the Northern Hemisphere? How do I tell good ones from ####? Are Gianninis good? Every now and then one of those pops up on eBay. They have the most flashy website, that's for sure. I'm tempted to string up a cheap Applause uke I have with steel strings just to check it out - but am I asking for trouble?

Finally, do bandolim and cavaquinho players get along, or are they the mando and banjo of Brazil?

[Klaus Wutscher]

Well , as far as I know, they did NOT get along at least in the past to the point that certain tunes that were made popular by one instrument were considered off limits for the other. Go figure! That should have improved by now, however. I never played a cavaquinho but my girlfriend made a trip to Lissabon and wanted to present me with some mandolin music and accidentally bought some cavaquinho stuff. I must say I loved it. I would be temted to play that on the mandolin. However, to do so you probably need a REAL loose wrist.

all the best

[Bruce Evans]

But where to find one in the Northern Hemisphere? How do I tell good ones from ####? Are Gianninis good? Every now and then one of those pops up on eBay. They have the most flashy website, that's for sure. I'm tempted to string up a cheap Applause uke I have with steel strings just to check it out - but am I asking for trouble?

I have a custom built cavaquinho from Brazil. Real tiger striped Brazilian rosewood! Love it.

Gianninis are good.

DO NOT string up your Applause uke with steel strings. You will probably rip the bridge off.

[glauber]

The cavaquinho is (one of) the main rhythm instrument in samba, and is used for both rhythm and lead in choro. It's strung like the 4 higher strings of a guitar (DGAE), but most people tune the highest string to D instead, because it lasts longer this way. It has a very bright, percussive sound. Because of the tuning, it's much more accessible to people who play guitar (which in Brazil used to be about 105% of the population, at the time i was growing up) than the bandolin. So there are a lot more cavaquinho than mandolin players around.

I'm not aware of any animosity between mandolin and cavaco players. I assume you don't usually have both instruments in the same band, because they occupy the same tonal range (you'd have a guitar, a 7-string guitar, some percussion and a lead instrument, which could be cavaquinho, mandolin or flute).

Waldyr Azevedo was the most brilliant cavaquinho player in Brazilian choro. His tune "Brasileirinho" is a staple of the repertory, and played by mandolinists as well as
cavaquistas. He had a beautiful clear tone that will bring tears to your eyes.

Giannini makes a range of instruments, from junkers to very good stuff. Look for their "professional" (Profissional) cavaquinho, for a good quality one.

[delsbrother]

Thanks everyone! I hadn't checked this thread in awhile and was surprised to find responses (it didn't show up in the "New Posts" search for some reason).

Tocotodo, no worries, I came to my senses!

Klaus, when I read your post I vaguely remembered something like that, and there IS a mention of what you said in the Cafe Brasil liner notes. Interesting! They made a point of mandolin and cavaquinho players getting along for the recording.. Also lots of tracks on there with both instruments, which made it hard to differentiate the bandolim solos from the cavaquinho ones..

Looking at the Giannini website, there are lots of old catalogs you can download. Several older ones have all kinds of different bandolims:

Portugues- bent top/flat back, like a Martin A style

Romano-flattop/back, teardrop shaped like the ones in Bandolim eye candy

Carioca-bent top, really pear shaped - kind of like those old cyclops resonator mandos, but with a round hole spruce top instead of a resonator

Napolitano- bent top/bowlback

They even had flattop bandolas and nylon string violoes tenor (tenor guitars) at one point.

The other thing I thought was interesting was a cavaquinho 8 cordas - an 8 string cavaquinho. Wow, that would REALLY make it tough to tell it from a mandolin!

There was also stuff in the old catalogs that looked exactly like old Harmony stuff.. Colorama guitars, etc. I wonder if they were knock-offs or if Harmony imported into Brazil?

I found a local dealer who would order a professional Giannini bandolim for around $1000 and a professional cavaquinho for around $700. The ones on eBay are the plywood variety and go for around $700-200, respectively - though I see more cavacos (is this the right plural? Is it similar to "uke"="ukulele"?). In fact there's a plywood cavaquinho up for sale now (NOW!); should I bid on that or put the money down for a "pro" one?

Darrell

[delsbrother]

Whoops forgot one question.. Also in the Cafe Brasil liner notes was a cryptic "in joke" about a very good cavaquinho player "not having any problems with his B string." Any idea what that meant?

[Mark Levesque]

If you listen to enough bandolim and cavaquiho solos, it gets pretty easy to tell which one is which.
The double-coursed bandolim sounds a bit thicker (can be a bit more out of tune as well )
while the sound of the cavaquinho has a bit more focus and can be punchier, I think the tension on the cavaquinho's strings is greater.

I wouldn't waste time or money on cheap instruments.
I bought my Joao Batista bandolim from Dexter at Carmel Music and I'm very happy with it.
He also sells cavaquinhos by the same maker.
Here are some bandolim mp3's of some gringo-ized choros that I'm playing with my band.
http://www.judyandmark.com/musicforfriends.html

If you do a search on the CoMando list there should be a bit of bandolim info.
Larry Klose has one made by Manuel Andrade that he obtained when visiting Brazil.

Here's the Brazil bandolim site (in Portugese)
http://www.bandolim.cjb.net/

Please feel free to email me about bandolims or choro music.

Cheers,
Mark

[JoseAlfeu]

Hi folks,
try this links about Jacob do Bandolim(in Portuguese).
Sheet Music
Sounds - some studio and home records
Well, in Brazil Cavaquinho is a very cheap and popular instrument used in samba and choro, more than bandolim. The range of prices varying from 50 to 150 US$ (Giannini and Rozini models).
If you have a friend in Brazil, he may send to you a cavaquinho via mail service like a personal gift to you for around 20US$.

That's all folks!

[delsbrother]

Thanks for the neat links! I've been watching a "pro" level cavaquinho auction on eBay. Nice looking instrument, if not particularly a good bargain at the BIN price. I was curious about the 3-piece back, so I emailed the Giannini rep in the US about it. They responded all the pro level choro instruments (bandolim and cavaco) have 3-piece backs. Interesting!