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Thread: ASCAP/BMI

  1. #76
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    Yeah, they don't bring many criminal cases for copyright violation. Hopefully, they have better things to do (prosecuting Martha Stewart, for example)
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  2. #77
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    I bought more albums when Napster was up and running then I do now. I'm with the idea that public exposure is better for the recording artist then keeping track of all the nickels.

    I also juxtapose this discussion with the pharmaceudical industry. You know, Merck gets to have an exclusive right to their medicine only for so long and then it's up for grabs to those that want to make generic copies. I would think (albeit wrong) that tunes that are several decades old would be imune from the nickel grabbers.

    Other than that, nobody will be paying me to perform at a club anyhow, so I'll be quiet.

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  3. #78
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    The life of a copyright is the author's life plus 70 years (it differs for older material, in varying ways). So really, your thought is on point. It's just that it takes more than "a few decades."

    Mark
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  4. #79

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    Benignus, the whole reason why we post copyright notices (the © symbol plus appropriate language) on printed music is specifically to "elevate" infringement from mere oversight to the criminal act it is.

    You can easily argue against tarifs and trade barriers; I would, too. But they are as different from ownership rights as night from day.

    Frequency of prosecution is, of course, no measure of wrongdoing.
    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

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    I think we're going to have to 'agree to disagree' on this one.

    IP itself isn't a physical thing it is an abstract idea, so it has be examined differently than physical property.

    Making yourself a fishing pole, because you saw your neighbor using one and took his idea is very much different from going over and taking the fish he caught with his own pole.

    Yes. There are still issues of right and wrong, but there are significant differences, too.

    This is why we discuss such things. Cheers.

  6. #81

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    [QUOTE]"This is why we discuss such things. Cheers. "

    And cheers to you, too, benignus!

    I have enjoyed every bit of this civil discussion among friends. Long live the Café.

    It is not man that lives but his work. (Ioannis Kapodistrias)

  7. #82
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    Excellent point! This Cafe has (once again) completely failed to ignire a Flame War.

    Good work MC.

  8. #83

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    "Imagine"...............................John Lennon

  9. #84
    Registered User Bob DeVellis's Avatar
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    One difference between physical property and IP is that only one person can be in possession of an object but more than one can be in possession of an idea (or the expression of an idea). Either I have my mandolin or you do. But we can both have the same song. Most (but not all) copywright-worthy ideas are, in fact, intended for distribution (through publication, performance, exhibition, etc.).
    Bob DeVellis

  10. #85
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    Not to belabor the topic, but here goes: How does it work when someone writes an inspired arraingment to an insipid tune? Where do the nickels go? Some to the original insipid composer and another to the creative arrainger? Or is the only "winner" the original (insipid) composer?

    f-d
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    Precisely bobd. To extend the fisherman analogy a bit.

    One fisherman invents a fishing pole that allows him to catch more fish and better feed his family.

    His friend and neighbor wouldn't dare steal the fishing pole. Instead, he builds his own. Now there are two familes being fed well.

    In straight terms there is only gain, and no loss to the sharing of ideas. But once we enter a more complex marketplace more facets of the issue emerge. Sometimes sharing will help build a young industry, while at other times sharing might hurt someone's existing profits.

    That's why Congress was granted the power in order "To promote the Progress of Science and useful Arts ... "

    So ... when I ponder how our IP laws help or hinder music my thoughts always come back to the idea that IP law only helps people to market their music. There is only an implied social benefit in that ... and one that is certainly debateable.

    Are there more musicans per capita nowadays? I heard a Random Internet Statistic claiming that one hundered years ago, one person in each American household played a musical instrument, while to day the average is only one person out of every four households.*

    If in fact there are less musicians around today than before the explosion of recorded music (and I'm not sure samples and loops placed into Garage Band really counts) #... we might just be hurting the arts rather than helping them.

    - Benignus

    *Of course, households themselves are smaller these days, so there must be some further adjustment required. My point is that we need look beyond soley ecomonics when making judgements about the success of our laws in promoting the Arts.




  12. #87

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    fatt-dad, Copyright is what is called a "bundle of rights": that includes, among other things, the right to "arrange, compile, create derivative works" etc. Other such rights within the same bundle are performance rights, duplication rights, "mechanical" rights, broadcast rights, etc., etc. My fundamental, philosophical disagreement with benignus was that yes, these rights are indeed "natural" rights, just like the ownership rights on material, tangible property.

    In your scenario, BOTH original composer (if such exists, and his/her work is duly registered with the Copyright Office i.e. if the original work is not in the public domain) and arranger ought to get something for their work.

    As far as performance rights (of arrangements specifically) are concerned, ASCAP does license them; BMI does not. Being both a composer of original music and an arranger of older, public domain music, I have chosen to be affiliated with ASCAP, for obvious reasons.

    If considering an arrangement, Step One is to find whether the work which you propose to arrange is under copyright protection. If no, no sweat; go for it! If yes, you must get written, signed permission from the copyright owner of the original work prior to embarking on this arrangement.

    All this with the disclaimer that I am neither qualified nor licensed (as e.g. an arts attorney) to dispense professional-grade advice.

    Cheers,

    Victor



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  13. #88
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Thanks Victor. I'll offer the proviso that I am no arrainger or composer, but find this interesting. One could imagine the "benefits" to being skilled in arraingment of public domain music, if unable to compose on your own.

    f-d
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  14. #89

    Default Re: ASCAP/BMI

    I am curious as to the process to copyright and register (for a lack of a better term) an all original song.

  15. #90

    Default Re: ASCAP/BMI

    Check those respective websites. I believe they will walk you through the process.
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  16. #91

    Default Re: ASCAP/BMI

    After researching can you submit simple lyrics with chords or do you need to write out the notation?

  17. #92

    Default Re: ASCAP/BMI

    You cannot copyright a chord progression. Any given chord progression can accompany a lot of melodies. You can copyright written material, such as lyrics. If you provide lyrics only that does not cover the melody. To copyright a melody it has to be in tangible form, either written or recorded.

  18. #93

    Default Re: ASCAP/BMI

    Quote Originally Posted by cassetteland View Post
    I am curious as to the process to copyright and register (for a lack of a better term) an all original song.
    As already stated, you'll need the piece you want to *register* (which is the correct word, at least in the USA) in either written or recorded form.

    One place to start reading: https://copyright.gov/what-is-copyright/

    This is all a different, though somewhat related, topic than the thread's original title. If, after reading up, you have more questions, posting them in a new thread might be more effective, but that's just my $.02.
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