what do you think about this for starters?

[clobflute]

my bowl back mandolin debut has been a disaster. looks like its too expensive to repair.

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Electro-Ac...item2ea2750d49

what do you think about this apart from being nothing like an acoustic bowlback :lol:

I have a 50watt Night train and greenbacks if that helps

[allenhopkins]

No info on the pickup in the ad -- if you're looking to plug in, would be nice to know what type of pickup it has.

This one does claim to be solid wood -- a plus -- but don't you have any hands-on access to mandolins at a dealer? There are generally-recognized brands of Asian-made instruments imported into the UK, about which Cafe members have some more direct experience and knowledge.

Hard to say "what we think" of it based on a single eBay ad, for a brand none of us has had a chance to play. I'd feel really unqualified to offer buying advice. And a "starter" mandolin needs a good set-up -- which again is a reason to patronize a reputable dealer, who can provide one.

[Jim]

Price seems a little high , though I'm not really familiar with UK prices. Solid spuce top is good, not sure what to make of the "and sides" in that sentence though. You get a case and thats a good thing.

[almeriastrings]

I would suggest looking for a known brand and model, with a track record.

You also tend to get what you pay for, and you're not paying much with this one... probably only £80 or so excluding the case. If you don't expect much, your expectations will probably be met.

[clobflute]

Thanks for the suggestions.

I don't play mandolin (yet) so I'm not too keen on spending lots in case I decide to give up!

Being new to mandolins I don't know what a known brand or a track record would look like. Could this really be that bad? They seem to have sold over 30 of them with no negative feedback.

Yes the spruce soundboard and case were very attractive. I could email the seller and ask what kind of pickup it has.

Allen - what price range should I be looking at for a start up then?

[allenhopkins]

...Could this really be that bad? They seem to have sold over 30 of them with no negative feedback...Allen - what price range should I be looking at for a start up then?

It could be "that bad," though I'm not saying it is. Thirty mandolins is not a lot, for an Asian-made import. What I am saying, is that this is an unknown brand. There are known brands that we can discuss, 'cause they show up in the US and many of us have played them. For example Thomann UK is offering this Kentucky KM-150 for £204. Most of us know what a KM-150 is: all solid wood, pressed top, decent starter instrument.

I'd expect to spend £150-200 for a decent "first" instrument. And I can't stress too strongly that getting out to a dealer and doing some "hands-on" -- even if you can't play mandolin yet -- is the best way to start building some familiarity. Is there a Hobgoblin shop near where you live? Their Ashbury line of Asian-built mandolins seems competitive. Don't forget to get a good dealer set-up (which might be a problem if you buy from an on-line high-volume house like Thomann).

[clobflute]

Thanks Allen

that would be about the price to fix my bowl back. Its a hard call.

I was hoping that an electric one would be silent so I wouldnt disturb the neighbour but it would still make the acoustic resonance. its not expensive for someone who is sure they want to play mandolin. I still want to know if I can handle it!

wil look up the Thomann one then

[clobflute]

what a fantastic range on the thomann site!

would something like this be okay for starters?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_bent...ndoline_vs.htm

[allenhopkins]

Well, €55 is about $72 US, if my currency converter tells me true. Based on what the specs don't say, it's a plywood pressed-top instrument.

Over here, I'd look with suspicion on a $72 mandolin. Perhaps, properly set up and playable, it would be adequate to learn on. Perhaps not.

As I said above, my expectation would be to spend about triple that amount on a decent first instrument. And consider a trip to a dealer, where you can actually look at real instruments, pick them up, strum the strings, get a true "feel" for what £50 or £100 will buy.

As you're finding, there are hundreds of options available on the internet. Working from Europe, you'll find that many of the brands you locate and consider, are pretty much totally unfamiliar to US mandolin players. Our advice is based largely on generalities, reading published specs, and experience with other brands we think are similar --not on direct experience with the brands you're considering. As a result, it's not as helpful as it could be.

Not to say "you're on your own," but don't expect us to be experts on every brand of Asian-built mandolin sold in Europe.

[houseworker]

I'd endorse the earlier comments on the eBay mandolin you linked to in the OP. It's simply an utter unknown and after sales support will be non-existent.

Although the Thomann site offers an extensive range at very good prices, they tend not to be such good value for low value items because their shipping charges are relatively high (they're based in Germany). Thomann are a box shifter who offer no set up, if anything goes wrong with your mandolin you'll be facing the hassle of getting the instrument back to them. At the sort of price point you're looking at, you're probably better served buying off Amazon to be honest.

The quality of the set up of the mandolin you buy will have a far bigger say in how easy it is to play than the finer details of the construction. If you buy online, it'll be a matter of luck whether or not any mandolin at your price point arrives in acceptable playing condition, and it may be best to budget for the cost of a local luthier setting up the instrument. Alternatively, you could consider doing the set up yourself if you're that way inclined. Rob Meldrum, who post here as Robster, has an ebook of advice that many here find helpful: http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/showthread.php?91948; it's free and it's probably worth your while emailing him and asking for a copy ahead of making any purchase since it'll help you understand the issues involved.

Kentucky is the make that offers the most to the buyer at the bottom end of the market but I suspect that they're still above your price point. There are three brands that are quite widely available in the UK (but not in the US) - Stagg, Ashbury and Ozark. My advice would be to avoid Stagg at all costs, but either of those other makes offer low end mandolins of acceptable quality. If I was going to pick one instrument to think about, it would be the Ozark 2001 listed here in the Amazon marketplace and cheaper here. Ozark are a brand owned by Stentor, who have a good reputation for cheap playable starter violins. This is a very basic no frills instrument, but its spec is better than anything you've linked to from eBay or Thomann, and can be had for £80 (or maybe less if you look around).

It's still best to buy from a local store if you can (and an awful lot easier if you have problems that need sorting). Hobgoblin are a national chain specialising in folk instruments. They're not the cheapest, and the stock and quality of support varies from store to store, but they're a good starting point.

We're all assuming you're in the UK. If you tell us more specifically where you are, we may be able to point you towards a shop that will be able to offer you a decent starter mandolin at a fair price.

[almeriastrings]

would something like this be okay for starters?

http://www.thomann.de/gb/harley_bent...ndoline_vs.htm

Oh, those...

If you think learning guitar is best done on something around £25, yes. Because that's the equivalent - and I'm being generous.

They sound like a cigar box (remember those?) with cheap strings. Setup is non-existent, and general feel is 'cheap 'n nasty'.

You need to decide if you are serious about wanting to play the mandolin. If you are, then invest in at least a decent instrument. If you want to try mandolin aversion therapy, buy a cheapie from ebay or some online store. You'll never feel the urge to play one again.

[almeriastrings]

THIS is the absolute cheapest real, genuine, decent mandolin they have it stock right now:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kentucky_km_140.htm

Everything below that - forget it (unless you want to be put off playing mandolin for life).

It WILL need a proper setup. You could do this yourself (try Rob's free book) or get a local luthier to do it for you.

Next up is this one:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kentucky_km_150.htm

Then this:

http://www.thomann.de/gb/kentucky_km_350_b_stock.htm

With a good setup, the KM-350 is a really great starter mandolin.

[clobflute]

wow...so much to take in...

I feel like I have very low standards settling for such a cheap mandolin! Thanks Allen. I 'll stay away from those titillatingly seductive unknown cheap ebay and thomann ones.

A question though. What is a mandolin set up? Is this much harder than stringing a lute or guitar? I can do both without breaking the strings

I'm in France (but yes...live in London) and wandered into a musicshop and they were selling some great looking mandolins for 100 to 200 euros.

The thing is I'm too embarrassed to ask with all those genius guitar players there pulling out jazz riffs and doing all sorts of wacky great music. I hung around hoping someone wouod demo a mandolin but they all have guitars in mind.

The bridge heights of the mandolins were rather different..something I didn't think about which I will now since I play lute, I would like an easier non-guitar playing style. Thanks for the suggestion....maybe hobgoblin is worth a visit then. I might have the same problem *blush*

Almeria - you're right. I was given a £2-3k classical guitar as a present. I never ever played guitar before but it sounds so nice I dabble with it when I can. A cheapo mandolin prob. would put me off but its a big commitment.

Houseworker - I just bought a stagg cable lol. I know they tend to make generic budget instruments which are so so. The last thing I want is to have an expensive mandolin that I can't play like my expensive guitar

[almeriastrings]

As with guitars, a lot of actually pretty dire quality stuff can look good, at first sight. That's all they have to sell it on. Looks.

Shiny finishes and 'bling' are not what makes a good instrument, however. The ones recommended above are good beginner's models. You will find numerous recommendations for them here (and we are a fairly picky bunch as far as quality is concerned). You can count on those being at least built well for their price, and being capable of set up to play easily and smoothly.

Setup is not just stringing. It is getting the nut slot heights right, the frets dressed and in good order, and critically with adjustable bridge mandolins, the bridge in the right place, the feet fitted to the top properly, and the height set correctly. If these are wrong, the instrument will be hard to play and will have intonation problems, buzzes, rattles, and will simply not sound right. This is more than enough to discourage anyone, so it is important it is done right.

One big problem with the dirt-cheap instruments is structural. The tops 'bend' under string pressure excessively, and frequently cave in... this movement also affects their ability to stay in tune. There is a lot of pressure and tension in a mandolin... and so building them right is not as easy as it might appear. I do a lot of instrument repairs and I have lot count of the number of cheap mandolins I see that are at the point they're simply not worth trying to fix due to this sort of thing. They're only good for firewood.

Stick with a known (and highly recommended) make/model, and get it set up right. You will save yourself a lot of hassle.

[clobflute]

Well finally I made it into a fascinating hidden guitar shop in the suburbs of London and bought a mandolin!

There were three mandolins in the shop ...this one was the prettiest and the cheapest (second hand). The shop is a guitar
shop so I had to make my own judgement about it despite my limitations. Handy having a smartphone to research on the
internet at the same time.

It's a lovely little f style mandolin with a bridge set up (which my bowl back doesn't have....finally I understand!) I was a bit mortified
to read it being slated as a cheap Taiwanese mandolin - this one is called Rally *shock* *horror* and I read the threads about the fretting intonation so I was attentive to this issue whilst I tried it out.

Amazing for a second hand mandolin - doesn't look like the owner used it much. I thought it was a solid top but the owner told me it was probably laminated at that price. It has a Made in China sticker, which is rather strange, since Taiwan is separate from China. The tuning is very accurate - I was shocked to see the green perfect tone colour show up across the treble E string all the way! However the frets and the string tension are a real issue for me. The finger pressure required to press the string is much harder than anything I've ever played. Plus my fingers are too big to fit the fret which is about 6mm by the bowl end of the neck! I see what you mean about the sheer pressure the neck is under....the string tension is just incredibly high. This one is really not a lemon though! I was very impressed (and I am impressionable being a noob lol) by it and bought it after fiddling around with all the ones they had (which wasn't much). The other two more expensive ones were very disappointing. I'm sure the neck was warped of the more expensive one, and the other was an oval shaped mandolin without the f ports and had very little resonance ... reminded me of my leaking bowl back

So I bought it with the intention of using it to practice. Even got a carry case with it which makes me look like one of those irritating ukelele players lol. wasn't much more expensive than my broken bowl back mandolin which I'd really like fixed, but this little nifty Rally one is enough to get me started tremelo'g away

When I'm better at mandolin, then I'll return and have a look at the Kentucky ones

[clobflute]

Here it is:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/9457286...in/photostream

[clobflute]

Just finished annoying the neighbours.

Someone pointed out the link for me:


http://www.macaris.co.uk/folk/Mandol..._mandolin.aspx


It is a spruce top. Yay! No one has said anything horrible in the reviews about this. It's certainly making me whetting my curiosity to hear what a better mandolin can do!

[almeriastrings]

That's actually an A-model mandolin.

The term "spruce" by itself is trade-speak for laminated. This also applies to the marketing of beginner guitars.

Just for further reference if you ever decide to go mandolin shopping again, here are the common terms seen in instrument marketing and their meanings:

"Spruce top" = laminated.
"Solid spruce" = solid wood, but may be pressed rather than carved.
"Solid, carved" = not pressed, but possibly entirely machine carved.
"Solid, hand-carved" = can mean anything from a few touches to entirely hand-carved. Most will be somewhere between the two extremes.

The same applies to backs/sides, i.e., "Maple back & sides" is not the same as "Solid maple back & sides"...

Here's the actual manufacturer's website. Yours is an AM-10.

http://www.straus.co.kr/am10.htm

Always look for the omissions, not just what is there....

Meantime, enjoy your new mandolin, I am sure it will get you started. The main thing now is to practice!

[clobflute]

Oh...spruce = laminated after all. 'Duh! Thanks

Now that I know, if I ever go shopping, I'd want a solid hand-carved one, but that isn't going to happen at less than 60€ lol.

I must have missed something when I thought I read the beginners pages to mandolins (like a few transverse cracks; missing bridge and strings of my bowlback). What is an A style mandolin? A for amateur?

Yay! This blue one looks really so cool it's just a pleasure to play with at the moment. I don't really know where to start practicing - I've watched a few youtube clips and they all use a plectrum going down strings. I've tried altering the tunings from violin tuning down to various Jethro Tull tunings. The violin tuning works best for the second course of bass strings, otherwise I'm having to count intermediate fret positions for the tones rather than accidentals.

I'm still no better clued up to knowing whether this is a good or bad mandolin, or whether I'm just so enthralled with it's great value because it allows me to start understanding how to get into playing so that next time I wander into a shop, I won't feel as petrified of trying one out.

[Jim]

If it plays and stays in tune, and you enjoy playing it, it's a good one. Congrats on your new instrument.

[clobflute]

Hi Jim,

It's been a great first week messing around with it. It really has given me the confidence to go for something better. I'm practicing alone, so any pitch issues are as unimportant as forgetting accidentals (j/k).

It has stayed in tune! It's just very difficult to get the higher frets beyond 12.

The great thing about it is that it fits in my hand luggage so I can bring it around to hotels and practice in my spare time, instead of hanging out at the pub (yes I know it's sad, but Jingle Bells and other virtuoso masterpieces really are that important to me).

Thanks for all the help ... my next challenge is to stop using the plectrum with my toes.







j/k

[Rodney Riley]

I like the blue Looks like it's in about the league of my first factory built mando. A Fender laminated A-style. I learned how to play the little beast, so it was good for something MAS will eventually get you and you will upgrade to match your mastery of the instrument. LOL Experience speaking. Have had six, sold two. My solid top Fender is a loaner to get others interested.