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Thread: $15 picks?

  1. #26
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    The equipment has not been invented that can measure how little I care what pick Bill Monroe used.
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  3. #27
    Registered User Jeffff's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    I would pay 35.00 for his right hand though.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    A gross of good picks can be gotten pretty cheap, and replaced whenever need arises.
    And with the money saved you can go to the diner. Once. Twice if its a dive.

    It takes more than an expensive pick to be a good musician, it's more about knowing what you want to get out of the instrument, you will find the tools, and everyone finds what works for them, or not. The balance of the instrument, strings, set up, pick and attitude which makes it work.
    The pick won't get you there by itself, you are right. Its the whole package. But the right pick can make a huge difference. Whether its BC or not for any given individual, I don't care. But that huge difference is well worth dinner for two, one time.
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    Registered User f5loar's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    "The bottom line is, you don't know until you try it. " Well sometimes this works. That's what I told my first wife before we got married and all it got me was a quick divorce and a half of a house a few years later.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffff View Post
    I would pay 35.00 for his right hand though.


    That's kind of high. I might wait for a sale.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    "The bottom line is, you don't know until you try it. " Well sometimes this works. That's what I told my first wife before we got married and all it got me was a quick divorce and a half of a house a few years later.
    I have that T-shirt as well.
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    The entire staff
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  9. #32
    Registered User Jeffff's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Me too, and while I probably could have gotten a real Loar with what it cost me, it remains the best money I have ever spent.
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  10. #33
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    I think there is exactly nobody who is using a BC pick because it is trendy or to be seen with status equipment. And I think everyone's reporting has been honest, I don't think anyone is disingenuous in reporting they like it, or that they don't.

    Its obviously not for everyone. But there are enough positive reports that its at least worth a try.
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  11. #34
    Registered User Jeffff's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    and while it has been lost in the shuffle and may take a while to get, Red Bear is worthy of consideration.
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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Red Bear Heavy C with the speed bevel, they are my favorite.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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  13. #36
    Peace. Love. Mandolin. Gelsenbury's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    If you can't afford $35 for a pick, what were you thinking getting a mandolin?
    You can get a mandolin for cheap. One reason why I started mandolin was because it didn't cost that much to try it. Sure, if you have a mandolin worth several thousands, the price of the pick is not an issue.

    But it's not about being able to afford it. Many people could afford to pay $200 for a pick if they really wanted to. The issue is whether the product is overpriced, and whether money could be saved on the pick and more productively spent elsewhere. The high price of the raw material goes a long way towards explaining the high price of the pick, so I'm not accusing Blue Chip of ripping people off. But I understand that the price makes people consider carefully whether the purchase is worthwhile. A $35 pick is an investment and decision in a way that a $1 pick isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by calgary.fiddler View Post
    That being said as a beginner there's no point on splurging on a really nice pick yet (especially is you have a habit of losing them) but when the time come you may find your self itching for the best pick you can find, then you should seriously consider these guys.
    I agree with this. Investing in a high-end pick may be a nice strategy to boost your sound when you hit a wall in your learning. But the player's skill is the most important ingredient. My teacher doesn't use posh picks, but sounds much better than me. A Blue Chip pick may improve my tone, but it probably won't improve my playing.

  14. #37
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    I sometimes feel fatique and sometimes amusement reading pick threads. Especially when a product is hyped as it has been with Red Bear prior to Blue Chip and now Blue Chip whereas nodody ever seems to mention Red Bear anymore while Wegen picks run on a sideline... Funny.

    What I seem to notice is that people with a 250,- USD instrument think that a 35,- USD pick makes them sound like Bill Monroe etc. You can´t make a silk purse out of a sow´s ear. That´s why for the most part the pick question is unnecessary for people with "lesser" instruments.

    I took the time to see what "our idols" use. The source are interviews on mandolincafe. Read them, they provide insightfull information apart from the pick question:

    - Jason Anick: Picks: For electric mando I use a Dunlop 1.5mm. For acoustic I use a Blue Chip Jazz 60.

    - Rich DelGrosso: Picks: Any brand that is hard like a rock, with point and shoulders, thank you.

    - Barry Mitterhoff: Picks: My favorite picks are these Gibson heavy black teardrop shaped picks, which unfortunately they've discontinued, so if any of your readers have some I'll buy them off them! I only have a handful left, and I really like them. I think I got the idea for these picks from Jethro Burns, who I had the privilege of taking a few lessons with back in the day.

    - Carlo Aonzo: Picks: My usual picks are made from tortoise shell (from old manufacturers), but there are good plastic material picks for training like Galli.

    - Joseph Brent: Picks: Wegen Bluegrass picks have the best tone, and are what I prefer to record with, but if I'm playing music that's highly technical and needs a bit more clarity, I also have a bunch of Blue Chip TAD60s, some with a round bevel and others with the 'speed' bevel. I should note that strings and picks are totally dependent on the instrument they're matched with, and the players' personal preference, so none of this should be construed as an endorsement of one pick/string or another. It's just what I prefer and what I think sounds good with Pähkinä.

    - Mike Guggino: Picks: Blue Chip TAD 60.

    - John McGann (god rest his soul): Picks: I prefer the Dunlop 1.5mm Tortex for everything except the mandola on which I use a Blue Chip 60 (also 1.5mm)

    - Will Patton: I use a tortoise shell pick, something about the grain of the pick really pulls the tone out. I use only material from turtles that have lived long productive lives and have expired while surrounded by loved ones at an advanced age.

    - Jesse McReynolds (I got quite a kick out of his answer): Picks: medium gauge

    - Matt Flinner: Picks: Dunlop Jazz Tone 207 or 208

    - Aaron Weinstein: Picks: The medium size purple Dunlop picks.

    - Bobby Osborne (his answer is as cool as the McReynolds answer): Picks: I use what is called a tear drop pick.

    - Adam Steffey: Picks: Blue Chip Jazz (large) 60

    - Andy Statman: Choice of pick you use: Red Bear heavy. I pick with the pointed edge. I don't use speed baffles.

    - David Grisman (of course): Picks: Dawg

    - Chris Aquavella: Picks: Wolle plectrums - mostly Blue (medium) and White (hard).

    - Jody Stecher: I use a variety of picks so I'll be prepared for different sonic situations. It depends on the mic and if I'm on stage or in the studio. In the studio I tend to go lighter, though still pretty heavy. For recording I use whatever makes the least noise on impact. I don't use real pointy picks though a rounded point is ok. Paul Hostetter has made me some great picks from new and old celluloid. One looks like a blue ceramic coffee pot. His wife Robin dubbed another "designer bacon" (the striped pattern suggests that), another looks like a fossilized butterfly. Tortoise shell is illegal so I don't use 19th century tortoise shell re-cycled from antique hairbrushes by a retired English policeman or others from an empty shell found on a beach in Ecuador by the uncle of a Tennessee banjo player and fashioned into picks by an Albino Indian.

    - Ronnie McCoury: Picks: D'Andrea Pro-plec 1.5mm large triangle

    - Roland White: Picks: For the last two or three years I've been using a Dunlop 1.14 mm. I'm trying out a Blue Chip "35" (it's not mm) right now and it feels good to me. I like the tones I'm getting so I will probably stay with it.

    - Doyle Lawson: Picks: Blue Chip 45

    - Sam Bush: Picks: Plastic .96

    - Don Stiernberg: Picks: Jim Dunlop "USA Nylon" 1 MM (Old Reliable), Blue Chip 40 (for extra punch, clarity, or brightness, like around banjo players). Also acquired some tortoise last summer which I'm liking for a fatter sound on tremolo, ballads, etc. All these are "Fender Medium" shape, and I play with the point.

    - Mike Marshall: Picks: I've used lots of different picks over the years. Fender mediums as a teenager (because Sam Bush used these). Tortoise shell in the shape of a Dawg pick during my years with David (we all came up with this shape). Plastic Dawg picks while in the Modern Mandolin Quartet because the tortoise would lose it's shape over time and get scratchy after one show and were a pain to maintain. Dunlop 207 after that just because I liked it even darker during those years. Pro Plec big triangles while playing with Chris Thile because I liked the point because of all the cross picking we were doing. Now: BlueChip because it has the same shape as the Pro Plec but it will NOT scratch and is always the same no matter what I try to do to it.... yeah!

    - Mike Compton: Picks: I use any number of things depending on what I've got in my pocket or what sound I want. Usually it's either a Red Bear Tortis or D'Andrea ProPlec. I do have some tortoise I use too.

    - Paul Glasse: On electric I use a purple D'Addario Delrin pick, standard guitar shape, and alternate between using the point or the rounded corner. I like the tone on the rounded corner for slower songs but get better control on fast tunes with the point.
    I'm currently reexamining and rethinking picks for the acoustic mandolin, so don't really have anything right now that I'd endorse. In general, I prefer a modified triangular pick, with slightly rounded corners. I like a stiff pick but not one as thick and dark sounding as lots of bluegrass folks prefer. I actually like some brightness from a pick but not noticeable flex or pick click. If an example can get us in the ballpark... David (Grisman) gets a great sound from his Grisman picks but, for what I do, I prefer a bit more point and not quite the thickness. I seem to point my picks slightly forward, so wear them slightly on that edge. I'd really like to try some of the new breed of wonder picks. Anyone making something they want me to check out?

    - John Reischman: Picks: I have my own model Red Bear. It is a little larger than their standard E. I believe that it is their medium thickness, roughly 1.2 mm. I think they are great! They are very similar to tortoise, but I actually like them better. To my ear they are a little darker and require less maintenance. The JR model comes in red. Remember, do not flex!



    Now that you´ve probably read through the pick choice of all those mentioned, do you think that Bobby O sounds weird, subpar, amateurish with his pick "of the teardrop variety". Can we see a certain wish to be hip in folks like Doyle Lawson (MAS convict) and Adam Steffey (MAS convict too). Does it have to do with the style of music that you play (Rich DelGrosso, broad shouldered blues, Chris Aquavella, classical music)...

    I don´t want do bash Blue Chip picks. I own one (had to try out...). But I don´t see them as "the thing".
    Olaf

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  16. #38
    Registered User 300win's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Well, I'm no Porsche owner, my two vehicles are a '96 Tahoe and a '99 Nissan Frontier both with over 225,000 miles on 'em. But I own 4 BC picks, three that I purchased, one that was given to me, because they are the only picks I ever tried that give the same tone if not better than a { we can't say that word pick, of which I have given all of them away to folks here on the Cafe}, but with the added benefit of 0% wear { from the first one I got 4 years ago }plus the added benefit of sticking like glue to my finger and thumb, and of another fact, I don't own a 5 or 6 figure $ mandolin either, both of mine barely busted $2000, but the Blue-Chip is by far the best $35 I ever spent on anything pertaining to musical instruments. 100% better tone, ease of playing, toughness, .....$35 is a cheap price to pay for that. I had some of the 'oulawed' picks that people are paying as much as $50 per pick for here in my neck of the woods, I think by that figure I owned around $300-400 worth of them, gave every single one of them away, don't miss 'em a bit. Another thing about the Blue Chip is the man behind them, Mr. Goins is a stand up guy in everyway. I had got a BC from him and tried it a while but came to the conclusion that I didn't like that particular thickness, it was a 60, and he took it back no questions asked and sent me another of which I use being a 50. So I ask, which other pick maker does that ? So now I have a 50 for each mandolin that stays in the case with each one, a 50 of a differant size and corner that stays in my guitar case, and a 40 same size and corners of my 50's that a friend gave to me.

  17. #39
    Lost my boots in transit terzinator's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    All the BC threads should be merged into one. That would be epic.

    The only thing I'll add is that buying your first BC is like drilling into your guitar/mandolin for the first time (to add a tuner/finger rest/bridge slotting, strap button, etc...). It makes you a little queasy, and you can wring your hands over the decision for a long time.

    But once you make that first hole, the rest are easy.

    (the big diff is that if you have regrets with a BC, Goins will personally undrill your hole for you and make you whole again.)

    EDIT: hey, on your list of players, you left off Thile... BC CT55, I assume?

  18. #40
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by 300win View Post
    I own 4 BC picks, three that I purchased, one that was given to me, because they are the only picks I ever tried that give the same tone if not better than a { we can't say that word pick, of which I have given all of them away to folks here on the Cafe}, but with the added benefit of 0% wear { from the first one I got 4 years ago }plus the added benefit of sticking like glue to my finger and thumb, and of another fact, I don't own a 5 or 6 figure $ mandolin either, both of mine barely busted $2000, but the Blue-Chip is by far the best $35 I ever spent on anything pertaining to musical instruments. 100% better tone, ease of playing, toughness, .....$35 is a cheap price to pay for that.
    I love my BC pick, but I've never understood what you folks are talking about when you say it sticks to your fingers or feels "sticky". Mine doesn't perform any differently in that regard than any other pick. It still gets slippery if my hand is sweaty, and even when it's not, it just feels slick and smooth. I've tried all the tips like washing it with soap and such, but I've never experienced this stickiness that everyone talks about. In fact, I get better 'grip' on my Wegen, with its "speed holes" in the middle and finely textured surface.

  19. #41
    Mandolin addicted...So? Pete Counter's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    I dint like bluechip that much, but..To play devils advocate here.. 3 sets of strings will run the same amount and that pick will outlive 3 sets of strings ..... to the Nth power? NOT a big investment if you like em!

  20. #42
    Registered User grassrootphilosopher's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by terzinator View Post
    EDIT: hey, on your list of players, you left off Thile... BC CT55, I assume?
    Yes, Thile does his CT55 (CT stands for... central time [?]). I left him out because I was a little sloppy with the interviews and didn´t want to read all at the moment. So I just looked for the "gear facts" that are stated mostly at the end of the interview. That´s where I did copy and paste.

    It does get more muddy when you go to each pick-maker´s site. You see the endorsers there. Fun to do.

    Two or three years back I was at a "gettogether" where a guy had this beautiful teens blacktop F-2 (or F-4..., I forgot). It has some provenance and sounds wonderful. He played it with a pick that I failed to identify. It was a great pick. And I mean it was a super great pick. But I let that slide because I didn´t want to again delve into the eternal search for happines. So I stayed quite content with my Wegen for some instruments, my Clayton for another, my Red Bear for some (oh, wait... a friend busted my last one and gave me a... instead) and my BC for stil another instrument. Still I don´t buy the BC is the ultimate pick stuff. But I have to agree that Mr. Goins is top notch.
    Olaf

  21. #43
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Gelsenbury View Post
    You can get a mandolin for cheap. One reason why I started mandolin was because it didn't cost that much to try it. Sure, if you have a mandolin worth several thousands, the price of the pick is not an issue.
    I wrote a whole blog about this very topic. How even a free mandolin is an expensive life changing affair. A free mandolin is like a free horse. Here take it.

    Now you need a case, strap, tuner, books or DVD, lessons, replacement strings, picks, not to mention travel to festivals, travel to lessons, travel to jams and sessions, a new interest in CD and live concerts, and what about a music stand, microphone, cables, PA, recording equipment, oh and a festival chair and a cooler and camping equipment, etc. etc.

    A mandolin is a life in music. Its a discretionary use of resources that, if you add it up, really costs. Seems to me saving on the pick is the least of your problems.


    But it's not about being able to afford it. Many people could afford to pay $200 for a pick if they really wanted to. The issue is whether the product is overpriced, and whether money could be saved on the pick and more productively spent elsewhere.
    I agree with this, in part. The issue is whether its worth it. And many people find the change in tone with a different pick to be not insignificant. For me it was like a light went on. It was almost as much change as getting a set up. YMMV of course.

    But if you can borrow one and see, lots of folks report it makes a huge difference, most folks report it makes some difference. Whether it makes a difference for you, and whether that difference is worth a ONE TIME expenditure of $35 is up to you. Or whether that money is better spent on 1/3 of a set up.

    Where I disagree is whether its over priced. I personally don't care. They have it - I want it. They charge a price, I have to decide if that price is worth it given other ways of getting that job done that well. Period. If the manufacturer is making them at a buck each and pocketing the rest, God bless him. Its really none of my business. No need to explain it to me. Same with a high end mandolin, who cares why it costs that much, does it deliver that much more than an economy choice is the real question. And my experience is the high end pick delivers way more than 35 times the value than the economy pick. YMMV.

    But I understand that the price makes people consider carefully whether the purchase is worthwhile. A $35 pick is an investment and decision in a way that a $1 pick isn't.
    This is really the core of the issue. Folks that come from the guitar world, (where the pick doesn't seem to make as much difference as it does with the mandolin) or folks who have been around a bit before there were high end picks, we treated picks like a commodity. They were throw away items. We would share them and not care if they were returned, we would lose them, we would keep them in pockets and ashtrays and wallets. I remember when I was first gainfully employed I went out with my first real paycheck and purchased four dozen dozen (576) fender medium tear drop picks. I vowed never to be without a pick again. I took a hand full of them and tossed them into the back of my car at the time, so I would always be able to find a pick back there somewhere.

    Now there is a paradigm change. The pick is where the sound gets started, and with a mandolin it makes a lot of difference how that happens. The pick is now a tool, and like any other tool, you get what you pay for. Things are different now.

    But the player's skill is the most important ingredient. My teacher doesn't use posh picks, but sounds much better than me. A Blue Chip pick may improve my tone, but it probably won't improve my playing.
    Yes skill is the most important ingredient. But its not the only ingredient. I can pretty much guarantee that a pick by itself won't improve your playing. If you don't get the pick you saved enough for, what?, a lesson and a half, maybe two lessons?

    But it might could improve your tone, and give you more sonic options, make you wonder at how much sound can come out of such a little wooden box, increase your enjoyment. Maybe not, but it is not unrealistic to think its probable.

    I sometimes think the real issue is emotional. The pick, in minds of most people, is still a four for a buck item. And you can feel taken advantage of paying much more than that. Like bottled water. Or high end coffee.

    And then there is the fashion issue. Sort of the reverse of fashion - being anti-fashionable. Showing off how economical you can be. Happens with guitar players, I think, more often than mandolinners. The idea is to show how much you can do with how little. Here's this guitar I found in the men's room of the Greyhound Bus terminal, and my strap is a piece of jute chord, and my case is a pillowcase I found under a bench in needle park. How can you play blues with any integrity if you can spend $35 on a pick??

    Hey ultimately its up to each of us to figure out where we are in all of this. And then how we want to rationalize the decision afterwards.

    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by Timbofood View Post
    Sorry but, I think there is a HUGE difference between a bow and a FLATPICK.
    No there isn't, at least not in terms of the playing mechanics. It's the interface between your right hand and the string, just like a violin bow. Granted, a pick has fewer ways of interacting with the string compared to a bow, but the fact that it's the singular interface between flesh and string isn't any different.

    As with different violin bows, you get a different sound with different pick materials and shapes. And as with violin bows, there isn't necessarily a "best" universal choice for everyone because we don't all play the same way. Violinists (and fiddlers!) therefore obsess over their choice of bow, and flatpickers obsess over their choice of pick. 'Twas ever thus.

    The only real difference is that flatpickers are extraordinarily fortunate compared to violinists, because flatpicks are so cheap. Even the "expensive" ones.

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  25. #45
    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    I was speaking in very broad strokes there, folded path,
    Simply speaking, the effort for an accomplished bow maker is far greater than the making of a flatpick. The time taken to obtain proper materials for a bow requires time and expertise, pick material may take time to develop from an original formula but, once the formula has been proven, easily reproduced. Bows are individual and take time. The use of plastics, or any other supercooled liquids for a flatpick becomes a study in repetition not individuality, doesn't it? Just asking that one, not being snotty. Guess I am not being that simple in the statement, I will shut up now.
    I agree that it is the interface which makes them similar.
    Timothy F. Lewis
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Classical guitar is my first instrument (30 years), violin is my second (10+ years), and mandolin is something I picked up on a whim just a few years ago. Here's what I've observed:

    - Mandolin picks cause greater variety in in sound and playability than do various makes guitar strings.
    - Changing picks can alter the sound from a mandolin more than changing the brand of strings.
    - For most playing, the wrong mandolin pick can affect playability greater than the wrong violin bow. (Most techniques that truly require a high-quality bow to perform are rapid, off-the-string maneuvers that most players will never attempt.)
    - On a violin, switching from a $50 brazilwood bow to a $5,000 pernambuco will make less of a difference than going from a Fender 346 Medium to a Fender 346 Extra-Heavy on a mandolin. Choice of pick matters MORE.
    - When deciding how much to spend on a bow, the (stupid) old rule of thumb that violinist often hear is to budget for a bow that costs 1/3 as much as the fiddle. Image applying that advice to your pick decision!

  27. #47
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Another perspective on cost versus value...

    Considering the long life of a BC pick, and assuming you can manage not to lose it, you will get hundreds or even thousands of hours of playing time on it. Just taking some of the anecdotal evidence from this thread, at a modest 3 year ownership of the same pick, and playing only a modest 10 hours a week (520 hours a year), that's over 1500 hours with that pick in your hand. That's about 2 cents per hour. If you play more per week, the cost per hour is even less. Think about other implements you use in daily life which will spend that much time in your hand, doing something that's important to you. Is $35 really that much of an investment for a tool that will get that much use?

  28. #48
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Jim

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    1924 Gibson A4 - 2018 Campanella A-5 - 2007 Brentrup A4C - 1915 Frank Merwin Ashley violin - Huss & Dalton DS - 1923 Gibson A2 black snakehead - '83 Flatiron A5-2 - 1939 Gibson L-00 - 1936 Epiphone Deluxe - 1928 Gibson L-5 - ca. 1890s Fairbanks Senator Banjo - ca. 1923 Vega Style M tenor banjo - ca. 1920 Weymann Style 25 Mandolin-Banjo - National RM-1

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  30. #49
    Lost my boots in transit terzinator's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Quote Originally Posted by grassrootphilosopher View Post
    Yes, Thile does his CT55 (CT stands for... central time [?]).
    Chris Thile

  31. #50
    Lost my boots in transit terzinator's Avatar
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    Default Re: $15 picks?

    Oh, I just thought of something... I prefer my $10 planet waves NS capo for guitar. My buddy, he spent $100+ on one of those McKinney-Elliot units. He rolls his eyes when he sees my Blue Chip, and I give him crap about his spendy clamp, and it's all good and we hug when it's over.

    Is that anything?

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