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Thread: The days of deals

  1. #1

    Default The days of deals

    Its looking like the days of getting a good deal on things over the net are about to take a hit. Theres a huge push for taxes to be collected no matter where youre from and it may be finalized very soon. I wonder how this will impact local brick and mortar stores and those who shop with them as opposed to ordering online. Good for some, bad for others I suspect.

  2. #2
    Martin Stillion mrmando's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Well, retailers with annual sales of less than $1 million will be exempt, so in that sense Mom and Pop will have something of an advantage over bigger shops. In the world of mandolins, if you want something higher-end you'll probably still look online and pay the tax if you have to. For lower-end stuff, I'd worry that places like FolkMusician.com might lose business to the local Guitar Center, at least for first-time buyers who don't know what a difference a good setup can make.
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Would having to pay sales nix a deal for you? I mean, really??

    Len B.
    Clearwater, FL

  4. #4

    Default Re: The days of deals

    I think that it influences peoples purchasing decisions. If you are someone fortunate enough to be in the situation to buy a '24 LL maybe not so much but who doesnt want to save some bucks?.... except for that little girl in the capitol one commercials.

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    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by lenf12 View Post
    Would having to pay sales nix a deal for you? I mean, really??
    If it brings the overall "dollars-out-of-my-pocket" above what I am willing to pay, absolutely.

    We have a yearly suspension of sales taxes event here in town and the stores are never busier. Folks hang on to their money and come to town on the day it goes further.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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    Registered User foldedpath's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by lenf12 View Post
    Would having to pay sales nix a deal for you? I mean, really??
    Not if I'm ordering a package of strings, but for a high-dollar item? Sure, why not?

    Here in Washington State, the sales tax is 6.5% base rate, plus whatever is added by local municipalities. In Seattle for example, that brings it up to 9.5%. The neighboring state Oregon has no sales tax. Guess how many car dealerships are located right over the border in Oregon.

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    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Not to get too political, but here in Mass. we have sales-tax-free New Hampster just a short drive away and I have never never ever taken advantage of that to avoid paying sales tax. I appreciate the services we have here too much and don't mind chipping in.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
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    Moderator JEStanek's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    My thoughts is it won't impact much of the buying decision for mandolin purchases for most people. With sales tax at 6-10% for most states, it will add a chunk to a hundreds to thousands priced mandolin. I think it's a fair thing to expect and in terms of what most people are buying on-line, they are luxury items rather than necessities (food, shelter, water, or air). There aren't tons of mandolins waiting to be purchased locally (even in Philaburbia where I live). I took my daughter to the local George's Music store to kill time and let her goof around on some electric guitars. In the back they had 3 banjos, and 4 mandolins. The mandolins were all entry level either all laminate non carved Alvarezes, one F style and 2 acoustic - electrics. I don't balk at paying the 3% extra for a Cafe classified when the seller wants that if we use Pay Pal.

    I consistently advise new mandolin aspirants to purchase from someone who does a set up vs just buying on e-bay from a drop shipper even if it means they pay some more for it. I've also abandoned the requirement of play before you pay. That's just not feasible for most people. If you can, great, if not, go with a good dealer.

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    Moderator MikeEdgerton's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    It wouldn't influence my decision. I already compare the total price for an item including tax and shipping before I buy anything. If it's cheaper locally I'd buy locally now.
    "It's comparable to playing a cheese slicer."
    --M. Stillion

    "Bargain instruments are no bargains if you can't play them"
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  12. #10

    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by foldedpath View Post
    Not if I'm ordering a package of strings, but for a high-dollar item? Sure, why not?

    Here in Washington State, the sales tax is 6.5% base rate, plus whatever is added by local municipalities. In Seattle for example, that brings it up to 9.5%. The neighboring state Oregon has no sales tax. Guess how many car dealerships are located right over the border in Oregon.

    Same thing happens here in MT. People come from WY to buy big ticket items to save on sales taxes.

    I buy a lot of stuff from my local shop. MUCH more than over the web. But this thing bums me out as I DO still buy plenty of things online.

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    Registered User Charley wild's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    After twenty one sales tax free years in New Hampshire I moved to Michigan a couple years back and adjusted to the sales tax easy enough. It really doesn't effect my buying decisions any.

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    Default Re: The days of deals

    "Wake up Wake up my Darlin Corey - what makes you sleep so late
    them revenue boys are a commin, they're standing behind your gate"

    Uncle Sam and your local elected officials have to get their daily bread somewhere
    most of them aren't paient enough for gratuitous donations based on merit

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    Default Re: The days of deals

    So many ways to figure this if it's bad or good. For those wanting to buy a Loar it could cost you a BOGO (Buy one, get one for you that don't shop enough to know what a BOGO is). Say Gruhn has a really nice '23 F5 with sidebound binding just like Monroe's that you finally saved up the $200,000 to get it. If he charges you the Tenn. 10% State tax that would be $20,000 extra. If he didn't charge you that tax you could buy a brand new Gibson F5 MM or BOGO! That's a big difference.

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    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by f5loar View Post
    . . .you finally saved up the $200,000 to get it. . . .
    I'm working on it. My savings account pays me 15 cents a month interest.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
    --Leslie Daniel, "The Brain That Wouldn't Die."

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  18. #15

    Default Re: The days of deals

    Yes a sales tax will impact mandolin sales. How? The same way the tobacco tax of a few years ago affected cigar sales. Most people bought lesser quality cigars but paid the same amount out of pocket.

    With sales tax, most of us will settle for a little less mando than we otherwise might have had. Or will defer the purchase and save up longer. But it will affect online mandolin sales. No doubt about it.

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    Registered User Tom Cherubini's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    How about looking at this from a web retailer's point of view. He has to set up an office system to collect different sales tax amounts for each state and remit them on a periodic basis separately to each state. Unless he's making enough profit to absorb the extra expense he'll have to either raise prices or go out of business.
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    Last edited by MikeEdgerton; Apr-26-2013 at 8:10am.
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  20. #17

    Default Re: The days of deals

    Although its origins stems from it, this thread is not about politics, its about mandolins, the internet and how shopping will be influenced by a sales tax. So please lets keep it on this side of the fence. The point you made strings in the first part of your post is another aspect of how it will be affected as well from a different perspective, one I hadnt thought about.

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    Scroll Lock Austin Bob's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by shortymack View Post
    Although its origins stems from it, this thread is not about politics, its about mandolins, the internet and how shopping will be influenced by a sales tax. So please lets keep it on this side of the fence. The point you made strings in the first part of your post is another aspect of how it will be affected as well from a different perspective, one I hadnt thought about.
    Let's look at guitars. Say Mr. Jones decides he wants a new Martin, street price is $2500. In Texas he would pay about $200 tax if he buys it at a store.

    So Mr. Jones does what a lot of folks do, which is to use the retailers to window shop, then search online for the best deal.

    With the new tax system the web sellers would not have so great an advantage, and Mr. Jones might buy locally because he can hold it and play it before he buys.

    But it's different with mandos. As we all know, stores that have a wide selection are few and far between. Many of us shop online out of necessity. We'll have to pay tax now, which is a big chunk of change, but I think most of us will simply bite the bullet and pay.
    A quarter tone flat and a half a beat behind.

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    Chief Moderator/Shepherd Ted Eschliman's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    For me, it's both good and bad. As the owner of a four-location local music store chain, I'm tired of competing with the big online dealers with an extra 7% advantage, one of which blatantly advertises its "NO SALES TAX" prowess. (That's a $140 savings on a $2000 instrument.) Yes, it hurts my business and I welcome a level sales tax playing field.

    For my own measly home string and pick business, if I have to do paperwork for a $15 string & pick order to every state and locality in the nation, I'm out. I will stop selling all my JazzMando proprietary website products if the legislation applies to my side business.
    Ted Eschliman

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  24. #20
    Registered User Tom Cherubini's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by Ted Eschliman View Post
    For me, it's both good and bad. As the owner of a four-location local music store chain, I'm tired of competing with the big online dealers with an extra 7% advantage, one of which blatantly advertises its "NO SALES TAX" prowess. (That's a $140 savings on a $2000 instrument.) Yes, it hurts my business and I welcome a level sales tax playing field.

    For my own measly home string and pick business, if I have to do paperwork for a $15 string & pick order to every state and locality in the nation, I'm out. I will stop selling all my JazzMando proprietary website products if the legislation applies to my side business.
    There it is in a nutshell.

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  26. #21

    Default Re: The days of deals

    This will absolutely change things.

    For those of you that recall that we moved from California to Nevada a while back, I'll say that it was mostly a business decision. There were many factors:

    It is easier to run a business here
    It is cheaper to run a business here
    It is a nice area and a perfect location for our business model
    Cost of living is cheaper

    But one of the larger reasons is that California is one of our biggest markets and we were shipping very little to Nevada. I regularly lost sales just based on the California sales tax. Now that we are in Nevada, our California sales are up. In retail where the gross revenue can be huge while the net profits are anything but, small things like this are the difference in being profitable and going under.

    This will hurt us and I think Folkmusician is more immune to this sort of thing than most. We are already priced higher than just about everyone due to the setup work.

    Now the paperwork side... Most small business will have trouble complying with additional sales tax regulations (I know we will). Selling something like musical instruments, one million in Gross sales is not a big operation. You could easily do this selling 5 instruments per day. This could be a tipping point for many small businesses. The larger guys would have the resources to handle it.

    Despite this hurting my business, I am not necessarily against it. I do think a level playing field is the right thing. I might even put more effort into our showroom, which as of now is honestly more of a problem than anything.
    Robert Fear
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    I'd like to see them do away with state sales tax altogether and even the playing field that way. Who wouldn't be happy about that?

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  30. #23
    two t's and one hyphen fatt-dad's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    It would just irritate me no end to pay into my lawful state sales tax. I mean really? Our schools, police, infrastructure and society depend on these taxes. I'd much rather have folks pay their tax than have the rate increased for those that follow the law. (In case you don't already know just because the internet folks don't "charge" tax, you have the obligation to pay it. Do you?)

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    Default Re: The days of deals

    Quote Originally Posted by WaveRay View Post
    I'd like to see them do away with state sales tax altogether and even the playing field that way. Who wouldn't be happy about that?
    I actually wouldn't if it means all my local parks, libraries, fire stations and police stations are all closed as a result of falling revenue.

    I think both Ted's and Robert's responses have been spot on. This new rule will definitely cut both ways. We'll just have to see how things work out. I've been buying stuff on Amazon for a long time, and even when they start charging for sales tax, I haven't changed my purchasing habit just because it cost me a little. The benefit of being able find exactly what I'm looking for, and have it shipped to my home without me having to drive around looking for it, still outweights the cost of added sales tax.

    But the days of the deals will go on... in the classifieds section of course

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    Registered User Tom Cherubini's Avatar
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    Default Re: The days of deals

    The Wall Street Journal today said that the proposed tax on internet sales is unconstitutional on the grounds that the Constitution prohibits states from interfering in interstate commerce - i.e. asking a business to collect taxes for another state where he does not have a physical presence in the form of his own store(s) is unconstitutional.

    Note to moderator: this is not political; the thread is exploring the possible eventuality of forcing internet businesses to collect tax for the states they send goods to, and I am merely explaining one documented opinion. Allow it or delete it as you see fit.

    TC/
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