Find what you love and let it kill you.

[JeffD]

I'm curious how he knew that his passion would sustain through all the sacrifices, though, and whether he had that kind of energy, drive and passion for anything else in his life -- marriage, work whatever.

I think that is a reality we create along the way. Its what those spiritualists and gurus have been talking about. You know the passion will sustain you because you decide it will. You know it will be stronger than other activities because you decide to drop the other activities. You quench and squelch all doubt and then believe in your believing. And because only you can decide if its worth it, its worth it, because you have changed, or (to be cynical) you are no longer capable of an objective view on the matter.

[catmandu2]

I think that is a reality we create along the way. Its what those spiritualists and gurus have been talking about. You know the passion will sustain you because you decide it will. You know it will be stronger than other activities because you decide to drop the other activities. You quench and squelch all doubt and then believe in your believing. And because only you can decide if its worth it, its worth it, because you have changed, or (to be cynical) you are no longer capable of an objective view on the matter.

I think this is probably universally untrue (or close to it ; )--the piece about "doubt"; I don't recall ever hearing of accounts of any of the great figures in art (not to mention all the others who've not been widely documented) where self-doubt doesn't/didn't play a prominent role...in the creative process, the liklihood of "success," ability to make a living, etc. I think the condition rather generally requires folks to overcome these rampant doubts--or persevere in spite of great doubt

Indeed: one hallmark of the creative process is "questioning," vulnerability, and a certain degree of ambiguity relative to many paradigms

But I agree--while "objectivity" may be requisite in journalism, is not a hallmark of literature, per se

[terzinator]

Great piece. Thanks for that.

On a related note, here's a piece from the Onion, titled:

Find The Thing You're Most Passionate About, Then Do It On Nights And Weekends For The Rest Of Your Life

http://www.theonion.com/articles/fin...then-do,31742/

[OldSausage]

The Onion. The Hipster's Bible.

[usqebach]

Great link, Chris!

I think the author most eloquently sums up the position I've taken on this issue.

"Oh,...was that meant to be ironic? We don't get that here. I was the last practitioner, and I haven't tried it in years." (Steve Martin as Charlie Bales in Roxanne).

Jim

[Austin Bob]

The Onion. The Hipster's Bible.

I hate hipsters. Their smug faces, vegan diet, tiny feet and sawdust bedding.

No wait. Hamsters. I hate hamsters.

[SincereCorgi]

I think this is probably universally untrue (or close to it ; )--the piece about "doubt"; I don't recall ever hearing of accounts of any of the great figures in art (not to mention all the others who've not been widely documented) where self-doubt doesn't/didn't play a prominent role...in the creative process, the liklihood of "success," ability to make a living, etc. I think the condition rather generally requires folks to overcome these rampant doubts--or persevere in spite of great doubt.

Totally agree, and the thing is... you only hear about the successes. It's easy to take a dark view of the original linked piece, but I think the overall sentiment is really laudable. Like the old saying goes, "any marriage that can't survive one partner quitting their lucrative job to obsessively practice the piano and jaunt off to Italy on a monthly basis for week-long piano lessons wasn't very strong to begin with".

[jmagill]

I hate hipsters. Their smug faces, vegan diet, tiny feet and sawdust bedding.

No wait. Hamsters. I hate hamsters.

Thanks, A-Bob. At the end of a long day I needed a laugh...

[catmandu2]

Totally agree, and the thing is... you only hear about the successes...

Well the long-suffering artist is an archetype, and it's easy to romanticize from both perspectives. But there are so many aspects of creative process that involve ambiguity--the wholely self-critical attitude we must assume is founded on questioning of a very fundamental nature: does my work have value? Is it "authentic"? And can I do it again? I've never met an artist for whom these existential questions weren't regularly engaged, and perhaps obsessively so. IME, it's not a static arrangement at all--altbough there may be periods of relative stability, habits of industry, relationships, etc--but the process is quite fluid and volatile. The question we all have to begin with to "improve" on the mandolin--"is it any good?"--creates an environment of ambiguity that may be experienced as doubt, anxiety, stress, dissonance, chaos, or any number of other terms folks use to describe the flow of arranging things following some organizing principle. But these and other more overt societal dynamics of "art process" makes it a challenging endeavor at best; the condition of self-doubt is probably the "rational" response

Of course, none of this necessarily applies to the craft-aspect of music-making, etc

[OldSausage]

Of course, none of this necessarily applies to the craft-aspect of music-making, etc

I was happiest back in the Renaissance, before there was this distinction.

[JEStanek]

Jamie - If that photo-a-day project includes images of mandolins there are lots and lots of people right here who would like to see them.
Lee

I posted the instrument/music related ones in the Post An Artsy Photo of your Mandolin thread. There's lots of cool stuff in that thread dating back to 2006. You can watch the history/development of digital image making and manipulation.

Jamie

PS. I really liked OldSausage's point about a family.

[Tom Cherubini]

The one thing that nobody has mentioned in this thread is the obvious fact that he didn't have a choice, any more than Beethoven or Mozart or Bach did.
Some Bach researcher said that in his studies he determined that Bach's total output was as though he composed 20 compositions a week every week for sixty years.
These men are not the same as the rest of us. They are driven by a lust we can never understand. All I can add is, God bless them! Our world would be a barren place without them.
What James Rhodes had to sacrifice to do it is none of my business. I cannot pass judgement on him using my "normal" life as a benchmark. What's 'normal' anyway? Certainly not my niggardly accomplishments.
However, so chi sono, and that makes it more tolerable.

[Astro]

But whats all this got to do with cheese ?

[SincereCorgi]

Some Bach researcher said that in his studies he determined that Bach's total output was as though he composed 20 compositions a week every week for sixty years.

So, Bach wrote 62,400 'pieces', whereas the last revision of the BWV had about 1,120 entries, meaning that apparently %98 of Bach's works have been lost. You've probably misremembered because that's total nonsense. He'd be the Wilt Chamberlain of composers.

I would agree that prolific composers like Telemann (who wrote way more than even Bach) did basically spend much of their lives at writing desks, in a profession that required a steady output, at a time when the musical style permitted a lot of formulaic material, but they weren't superhuman. They seemed to have found time to have lots of kids and write lots of letters and, in the case of Mozart, shoot pool and eat ice cream. For every 'deranged' artist it seems like you can find plenty that just had pretty stable lives and a good work ethic.

[OldSausage]

But whats all this got to do with cheese ?

Find the cheese you love and it probably will kill you.

[Marty Jacobson]

But I can't decide between Mount Tam and Sainte-Marcelline.

[Bertram Henze]

Find the cheese you love and it probably will kill you.

[Astro]

History is full of forgotten prolific composers. Same with artists and voluminous works of art.

The ones remembered in history knew thats its not just what you produce, but also what you learn to throw out.

Same thing goes for cheese, and fungi in general.

[greg_tsam]

I was happiest back in the Renaissance, before there was this distinction.

Was that when you were the King of Snark, the Pious?

[JeffD]

I've never met an artist for whom these existential questions weren't regularly engaged, and perhaps obsessively so.

Further evidence that I am not an artist. Heck I am not even a musician.

[OldSausage]

Further evidence that I am not an artist. Heck I am not even a musician.

But since life imitates art much more than art imitates life, the only way to be a true artist is to not be an artist at all.

[jaycat]

"The tradition in which I participate is that of countless hard working men and women who come home from a day of work that is soul draining and synthetic, and play music as a way to reconnect with my own humanity. I seek the transcendence that comes from experiencing an old tune from the inside, an experience not unlike that of many many before me. There is a solace in being a tiny drop in a very large eternally moving river. Its not my river. It was here when I got here. I can’t make it go, I can’t make it stop. But what I can do, I can feel it and wonder at it and let it carry me."

This is very, very nicely put, Jeff. Don't say you're not a writer.

[catmandu2]

David, I wasn't going to do it...I thought you wanted to get back to the renaissance! ; ) You introduce a very broad discussion (and I can't be held responsible for straying this one!)

This is what Jeff's reference is about--"what is a musician?" Art and music (all phenomena) are subject for interpretation (but particularly aspects of aesthetic experience, and why they're so interesting for discussion). At root, is always the matter of representation (how we experience things--and communicate), but we can also approach it from the "outside-in" using various theoretical perspectives--such as mimetic theories

I'm one who advocates for the very liberal term of "musician" (and of the term music as well), but also fairly rigorous consideration of the terms of "Art." (And as such, I would probably argue that Jeff in fact IS a musician--probably on many levels ; )

[Bertram Henze]

I'm one who advocates for the very liberal term of "musician" (and of the term music as well), but also fairly rigorous consideration of the terms of "Art." (And as such, I would probably argue that Jeff in fact IS a musician--probably on many levels ; )

The man that hath no music in himself,
Nor is not mov'd with concord of sweet sounds,
Is fit for treasons, stratagems, and spoils.
The motions of his spirit are dull as night
And his affections dark as Erebus:
Let no such man be trusted. Mark the music.

Shakespeare The Merchant of Venice

[greg_tsam]

When I first started playing someone referred to me as a musician and I balked at it. 10 years later I accept the label and strive to earn it without forgetting that I do this for fun.