Loar Restoration

[goaty76]

In North America who would be the best to work on a Loar instrument? This could include finish work as well as repairs. I'm posting this in the Vintage section so obviously I am not talking about the modern Loar mandolin brand.

Thanks,
Phil

[sunburst]

There are more qualified people than there are "names" that potential buyers would want to hear when considering buying a restored Loar. Lately, Steve Gilchrist has become the name many people want to hear, but you said North America, so Lynn Dudenbostel very well might be the most respected name to choose.

[f5loar]

I would add Randy Wood of Georgia to the list. He's had lots of experience including repairs to the most expensive Loar to date. And last I heard Gibson Co. now directs their repair jobs to Danny Roberts who should also be pretty qualified to restore one.

[geechee]

I think Lynn Dudenbostel would be a great choice.

[j. condino]

Mike Kemnitzer, aka "Nugget".

There are plenty of people who have the skills to do the work; I've got 100% confidence that John Hamlett would do an outstanding job. The biggest issue with wanting someone with heavy brand recognition is time. Every minute they spend working on your vintage instrument is time that they will never be able to get back to buildiing their own instruments; at some point in almost everyone's career that becomes a priority....

j.
www.condino.com

[Bernie Daniel]

Wouldn't Gibson be the best place to restore a Gibson Loar?

[PJ Doland]

John Hamlett is a freaking repair genius. He's done work on two Loar-era instruments for me (a snakehead and an F-2).

The work was AMAZING, and it was detailed in these two threads:

http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...1923-Snakehead
http://www.mandolincafe.com/forum/sh...6-An-F2-repair

[doc holiday]

Wouldn't Gibson be the best place to restore a Gibson Loar?

In my opinion, no.

[sunburst]

In my opinion, no.

My opinion is similar. Most of the folks with the "chops" to do a good job on a Loar restoration don't work for large companies. But... I don't know who would be doing the work at Gibson... or if they would farm it out to someone else, so it's only my opinion.

[f5loar]

See my post No. 3 above.

[doc holiday]

Check that f5Loar, but if I owned a Lloyd Loar mandolin (which I don't), I wouldn't just send it to Gibson, assuming it would end up the the right hands. If I chose Danny Roberts to do the work, i'd get it into his hands myself. I wouldn't send a 30s Martin to Nazareth for work either..... The person who does that kind of work (& there are a fine bunch of them capable of it)...don't have a Ltd. or Inc behind their name in my opinion.

[Ken Waltham]

I love Gibson instruments from the Loar and post Loar period. Having said that, Gibson would be one of the very last places I would send one for work. Not a chance.

[Andrew B. Carlson]

I feel like most people just send them to Gilchrist, Dude, Heiden etc., and don't try out Gibson first. With the results we've seen from those reputable luthiers, I guess people just go with what they have heard and save time by sending their Loars to them rather than testing the waters at Gibson. I've haven't heard of anyone sending their Loar to Gibson for repairs, restoration etc. yet.

[Marty Jacobson]

I've haven't heard of anyone sending their Loar to Gibson for repairs, restoration etc. yet.

Besides Charlie Derrington's rebuild of 73987?

[f5loar]

Sure there was and is a bad reputation from previous Gibson repairs of the past. But since Charlie Derrington came on board and up until now things did get better at Gibson. First off they learned how to build a much better Loar copy then they ever did since the new F5L came out in 1978. I guess not everyone has a personal relationship with Gibson to get the right guy to do the repair. And to be honest you likely will not like the bill either since you likely will not fall under warrenty work of original owner of a Loar. The Gilchrist problem is the high shipping cost for a USA owner. I don't even like to order a magazine from down under. It is best if you can hand deliver a Loar for repair. So pick someone close to you. As far as Martin Co. , they have a top notch repair dept. that can handle anything from any year. I had a '52 D28 completely refurbish and it turned out great and the price was not bad at all. I did hand deliver to go over with the actual repair guy what I wanted done to it.

[doc holiday]

I think lots of vintage instrument owner/players are pretty savvy & educate themselves on matters pertaining to their instruments. If I owned a very expensive instrument (eg Lloyd Loar F5), I wouldn't be 'testing the waters' when I needed work done. I'm lucky enough to have some '30s era guitars, and part of the deal I feel as custodian, is that I need to keep them from bad repairs. Luthiers & fine repair people have built up a reputation by a lot of dedicated work, & in our respective musical communities that word gets around. When I think about it, I have a similar opinion about the new instruments I have. I know who can to a great fretjob for example or neck reset & that's who i'll go out of my way to bring work to. If I don't personally know them, you can bet i'll ask around for recommendations & try to see samples of their work.

[Danny Roberts]

First let me say that we do a lot of work on Gibson Loar mandolins here at the Gibson repair facility including my own 1922 Loar.
We have some of the best repair and restoration guys anywhere working here and they are very qualified to do work on Loar instruments.
Jackie Miller our head mandolin and acoustic repair guy is who Charlie had do a lot of things on his personal Loar, Charlie trusted Jackie with anything as do I, Jackie is the only person I have had touch my Loar since I got it.
Many of the pro players with Loars bring them here for their work.
Ken I don't know why Gibson would be "one of the very last places" you would take your Gibson for restoration I don't recall us doing any work for you and having problems??
Anyway I just wanted to let everyone know we are here and doing repair and restoration every day with qualified people and if you need any repair on a Loar or any other instrument let us know and we will be happy to take care of it for you.
If anyone is ever around when The Grascals are playing look me up and I will be glad to let you play on my Loar that has had a good bit of work done here.

Thanks,
Danny

[JFDilmando]

I believe much of the ill will towards Gibson has been well deserved. HOWEVER, as Danny's note points out, much of this is bases on ancient history. Charlie et al have helped set them on a very different path,and I might say a higher road since the awful days of disasters that don't need to be revisited here... I personally don't know if I am in a place where I would offer one of my mandos to them before I might seek out an Altman, dude, or other reputable luthier, but I certainly wouldn't have the "hell no" attitude that I would have had 10-15 years ago. It takes a long time to build trust. Doubly so for a larger company. Potentially destroyed in a brief timeframe, and in the case of Gibson they spent YEARS damaging themselves.

Good on the likes of Danny to work uphill to set things right. Thanks for the input, Danny

[f5loar]

Danny, So good to hear you put in your 2 cents on this repair matter. This is what I knew about the repairs Gibson is currently doing and you just have to overlook the past. Lots of strange repairs went on the 50's through the 80's which is hard to overcome. But I have no doubt Gibson is back stronger than ever including major repairs. Just keep your prices competitive.

[sachmo63]

Well said Danny

[sunburst]

...If anyone is ever around when The Grascals are playing look me up and I will be glad to let you play on my Loar that has had a good bit of work done here.

Thanks,
Danny

I have, in fact, done that very thing. It is a great sounding mandolin that does show the evidence of work being done long ago. (Did that one have a Virzi added and then later removed? (memory lapse...))

[Bernie Daniel]

In my opinion, no.

You could be right but it is a Gibson after all not a "Loar" -- and they did pretty good job with Monroe's mandolins as I recall?

[HoGo]

You could be right but it is a Gibson after all not a "Loar" -- and they did pretty good job with Monroe's mandolins as I recall?

That pretty good is nowhere near what top violin restorers do on Strads. I've always wondered why people admire that restoration so much. Yes, the mandolin was in splinters, but putting it back together with epoxy was not best idea IMO. And the scars were left very visible. Not acceptable for $1M worth instrument.
Have a look here how great restoration looks (scroll down for pics of repairs):
http://www.burgessviolins.com/Oberli...estoration.htm
with this on mind I'd suggest Mike Kemnitzer for Loar restoration, I heard he is in touch with those Oberlin workshop folks and surely learned many of their best tricks....

[FL Dawg]

I love Gibson instruments from the Loar and post Loar period. Having said that, Gibson would be one of the very last places I would send one for work. Not a chance.

I have to agree. I wish I could tell you where to send it... take your time making the choice.

Ken I don't know why Gibson would be "one of the very last places" you would take your Gibson for restoration I don't recall us doing any work for you and having problems??

Danny, you could be doing great work, but there are just so many reasons why I would want to work with an independent luthier who specializes in restoration, outside of a production setting. Cost would be the most obvious - the bills I have seen for factory restoration are not competitive.

More important, I want the personal relationship where I can make the decisions together, and not just be stuck with "the way we do it", and not know who is working on my mando/guitar. Get pictures along the way, or visit the shop along the way. To say nothing of the history of unwanted refinishes and oversprays, retops, renecks, etc.

The independent guys have more freedom of materials. The right guys have stashes of old pear wood, brazilian rosewood, and dark ebony, the kind of stuff that's needed to get the job done right. Solid pearl, spirit varnish, hot hide glue, stashes of old parts, strips of old binding, ivory, etc. Materials no longer legal or practical in a manufacturer setting, but necessary for proper restoration.

As far as Martin Co. , they have a top notch repair dept. that can handle anything from any year. I had a '52 D28 completely refurbish and it turned out great and the price was not bad at all. I did hand deliver to go over with the actual repair guy what I wanted done to it.

You are brave and I am happy you had a good result. Personal contact helps. But Martin is the last place I would look for restoration of a vintage Martin. Martin is a factory for mass producing new instruments, and doing warranty repairs on them. They still can't get the old bridge shape right! And hot hide glue is about a billion dollar add on. They sure love to overspray and replace bridges for no reason too. For some guitars that is fine, but for most of the stuff we like, I don't think it's worth the risk. I'd rather have the small shop guy do the neck reset, craft a perfect matching shim from Brazilian rosewood, aged replica saddle, fill and recut the nut, no finish work, and you still can't tell it had been worked on.

[Bernie Daniel]

That pretty good is nowhere near what top violin restorers do on Strads. I've always wondered why people admire that restoration so much. Yes, the mandolin was in splinters, but putting it back together with epoxy was not best idea IMO. And the scars were left very visible. Not acceptable for $1M worth instrument.
Have a look here how great restoration looks (scroll down for pics of repairs):
http://www.burgessviolins.com/Oberli...estoration.htm
with this on mind I'd suggest Mike Kemnitzer for Loar restoration, I heard he is in touch with those Oberlin workshop folks and surely learned many of their best tricks....

Well where ever (whomever) the work is done is fine with me -- not my instrument!

But your comment on the Monroe F-5 repair was interesting. I think you are saying that you would have put a new top on it instead of piecing together the old top? Or are you saying you would have also pieced it together but using some other kind of glue? Just curious. One point. I'm not sure it was already a million dollar instrument in 1985 though?