New Baby (OM)

[bratsche]

My new Octave Mandolin conversion, or Old Baby (Taylor guitar) is finally ready to introduce. I did it all myself! ...thanks to the encouragement of several kind folks both on and off this board. I'm still working on dialing in the setup, but am happy with what I'm seeing and hearing so far, and wanted to post a picture.

I think this Baby came out just lovely!

bratsche, the proud "momma"

[tablaninja]

Nice work! I went to play a Taylor GS Mini today with this idea in mind b

[Eddie Sheehy]

Lookin' good...

[bratsche]

It sounds kinda like it did before, but with double courses and in fifths.

Tablaninja, did you see this earlier thread, then? That GS Mini was one of the other conversions that inspired me to do this, but I got the Baby instead (on my local Craigslist).

bratsche

[Cheryl Watson]

Looks great. I'll bet that is a lot of fun to play. I read that the scale length is 22 3/4".

[multidon]

Did you plug the holes in the headstock, re-drill, and hide the work with a veneer? How did you plug the pin holes in the bridge?

[bratsche]

Cheryl - It will be much more fun to play when I get used to the 22 3/4" scale! I've never played anything so big. Also, when I compensate the saddle and bring the action down. It's still too high.

Did you plug the holes in the headstock, re-drill, and hide the work with a veneer? How did you plug the pin holes in the bridge?

Yes to all of the first question, except that I did it in the order of plug, veneer and re-drill. As for the second, by the time I got to the bridge, I was so sick of making plugs that I just covered the pin holes with a beautiful veneer of black electrical tape.

bratsche

[multidon]

As for the second, by the time I got to the bridge, I was so sick of making plugs that I just covered the pin holes with a beautiful veneer of black electrical tape.

Yes, and quite an invisible repair at that! At least in the picture. My idea would be to rout a shallow channel across the six holes and inlay a strip of contrasting wood, perhaps the same veneer as the headstock to match? Doesn't have the elegant simplicity of the electrical tape though!

[bratsche]

Well, I actually tried cutting out a piece of that veneer to the shape I needed to just glue it over the six holes, believe it or not. But it kept splintering off, and I gave up. I don't have a router.

For that matter, this whole project was done with sandpaper, an X-acto knife, assorted files, an electric hand drill, and a lot of patience and determination. In the end, I didn't even trust myself to use the electric drill to make the holes in the headstock. I found a couple of chucks in the tool chest and used the drill bits in them, starting from very small pilot holes, and going larger bit by bit, constantly checking against the holes in the cardboard insert that the tuners came in. (They are new old stock, USA made, 24:1 gear ratio Grovers of non-standard spacing - 15/16" - that I bought for a song on eBay).

bratsche

[multidon]

Some other ideas for you to think about eventually: get a set of solid non fluted ebony pins glue them in cut them flush sand and polish. Or drill a very shallow hole over the existing hole (I might use a tapered hand teamed so I could work slowly and carefully) then inlay pearl or abalone dots. There are several ways to go that aren't too terribly difficult and doable with hand tools. You are correct of course that you priority should be to get that action and intonation right first. Good luck! I think I would do the same thing if I found an inexpensive candidate. In addition to the Baby and the GS mini the Little Martin might be a good candidate.

By the way I do understand the reluctance to use an electric drill. One slip and you're up the creek. For working slowly and carefully on drilling jobs that reqire delicacy I have an old "egg beater" drill that I love. It gives great control. You can find those for not too much at flea markets sometimes.

[Bernie Daniel]

It sounds kinda like it did before, but with double courses and in fifths.
....bratsche

I am shocked to hear this!! Can't be!

Seriously wonderful job! Doesn't it feel special to look at an play your "own creation" (with in limits of course) -- 100 years from now someone will be playing that instrument that you envisioned and caused to happen.

On the practical side how are you finding the prospect of a 5th tuned instrument on such a wide neck?

Nice job on the headstock -- without seeing the back side I'll guess those tuners are nickel plated Fenders? I used those on the last mandocello conversion that I did and they work very well for mid-range price tuners.

You sure were conservative on making the tuner holes! But it worked well -- I do know the trepidation of cutting those first set of holes in your freshly veneered headstock -- the thing that ulcers are created by......

Don, great idea for hiding the pin holes -- I be sure to plug them first to maintain strength although it might just be "overkill".

Lovely job now for that YouTube video..............

Need to move that MOP fret marker from 9th to 10th fret?

[bratsche]

See below for closeup headstock pictures.

Thanks for the kind words, Bernie. Your posts of your own endeavors helped inspire me!

I don't find the width of the neck an impediment. It is not very deep, and, if you notice, I started the first and fourth courses closer in on the fretboard than the original high and low E strings were (actually, they were so close to the edges that I didn't like them there - they'd actually slide off the fretboard if I wasn't careful!!)

As I told Don, but you must have missed, the tuners are "new old stock, USA made, 24:1 gear ratio Grovers of non-standard spacing - 15/16" - that I bought for a song on eBay". Check out those gears on the closeup - does anyone even make that gear ratio nowadays? Anyhow, they were perfect for this project, since I'd never be able to use them to replace the tuners on any of my other instruments, since they are non-standard. (price: $32 plus shipping)

I will definitely put it on YouTube once its setup is up to snuff. And yes, it's a huge kick to experience the thrill of accomplishment, especially as it's the first time I've done anything like this. I've added a bunch of new skill sets to my repertoire. And I really do hope someone is still playing it somewhere, long after I'm gone.

I don't know about moving the fret marker - I never really noticed it wasn't in the normal place since I seldom pay any attention to those, other than the octave.

bratsche

[Bernie Daniel]

Yes really amazing about those tuners -- they almost look Waverly quality and 1:24? Pretty amazing find I'd say! And the spacing is also interesting 15/16" (0.9375") that spacing is the same as on my F-2 if I remember right. I think most of the major tuner makers will still tell you their gear ratio but 1:16 or 1:18 seems kind of the "standard" these days?

The fret marker is just a "bug-a-boo" of mine because apparently I do pay attention to them and find myself on the wrong fret (more than usual) with the dot on 9th.

[otterly2k]

Nicely done, Bratsche!

how does it sound?

[bratsche]

Thanks, Karen! It sounds very nice, to my ears. And you'll never guess what kind of strings I have on it. I was looking at the ones on hand, thinking "meh", because they were round-wound, and thinking the D'Addario OM strings looked way too heavy, either for the instrument or my style of playing, or both... then, I just happened to look through my "leftover string packs" collection, and purely on a whim, took out the D'Addario Flat Tops. These are mandolin strings, mind you, and I positively -hated- them on my mandolin! But the gauges looked a bit, but not too drastically, thinner than the ones I was considering. So I took out one of the inner strings, thinking no way would they be long enough to reach all the way down to the Baby's new tailpiece (which has the hooks down at the edge of the body). But - lo and behold - they were JUST long enough! So I put on all of them. I'm thinking they are just right - they sound and feel good, and don't have that finger noise that I get with rounds. So, there was a reason I had kept those around all this time!

I'm still working on the setup, though. Talk about acting conservatively - I have taken off the nut and saddle about 4 times so far to gingerly remove material, put them back on, and test the new string height. I don't want to mess it up by taking too much off! LOL! Each time, it's gotten a little better, but I'm not quite there yet!

bratsche

[Bernie Daniel]

What is the distance from the bottom of the string to the fret board on the G and E courses?

On mandocello I find about 0.05 - 0.06" (A-course) and 0.07 - 0.09" (C -course) ends up working as a first try on a mandocello. Obviously what ends up working ideally is also determined by the crown height of the frets.

This last mandocello conversion has a 9" radius on the fboard -- it is so radical you can easily see it. Getting the nut right on that one is driving me up a wall. The nut has been off many many times!

I try to make a rough assessment without the strings by getting a flat blade into the bottom of the string slot and then measuring the distance. This is a good way to tell how much you are sanding or filing off too -- but its just a guesstimate.

What do you have the string action set at -- measured at fret 12?

Also have you dialed in any relief? Hmmm maybe not -- no truss?

Thanks, Karen! It sounds very nice, to my ears. And you'll never guess what kind of strings I have on it. I was looking at the ones on hand, thinking "meh", because they were round-wound, and thinking the D'Addario OM strings looked way too heavy, either for the instrument or my style of playing, or both... then, I just happened to look through my "leftover string packs" collection, and purely on a whim, took out the D'Addario Flat Tops. These are mandolin strings, mind you, and I positively -hated- them on my mandolin! But the gauges looked a bit, but not too drastically, thinner than the ones I was considering. So I took out one of the inner strings, thinking no way would they be long enough to reach all the way down to the Baby's new tailpiece (which has the hooks down at the edge of the body). But - lo and behold - they were JUST long enough! So I put on all of them. I'm thinking they are just right - they sound and feel good, and don't have that finger noise that I get with rounds. So, there was a reason I had kept those around all this time!

I'm still working on the setup, though. Talk about acting conservatively - I have taken off the nut and saddle about 4 times so far to gingerly remove material, put them back on, and test the new string height. I don't want to mess it up by taking too much off! LOL! Each time, it's gotten a little better, but I'm not quite there yet!

bratsche

[Bertram Henze]

Encouraging example of what can be done with simple means.
Now we are looking forward to your next project of carving a top...

...and a scroll

[bratsche]

Ha ha, Bertram. I think any lurking luthier ambitions I might have will be stifled by the desire to simply play. I can't wait to get this thing set up right and forget about it!

Bernie - you're asking measurements? I don't need no steenking measurements! Bwahahaha!

Seriously, I was using feeler gauges at first, but have long since put them back in tidy order in their little holder, because it was too much of a hassle. Nobody's recommendations (that I found) made particular sense for this instrument configuration, anyway. Actually, I think I have the nut about one more step away from being finished. The main objective is just to get all the strings not to play overly sharp on the first couple frets. It's almost there. What I've been doing is just carefully marking with a pencil the point to which I would cut or sand at a particular time. The saddle has a little more lowering work to go, plus the compensation (I work on both each time, but wanted to get the nut slots perfected first).

There actually is a truss rod (accessible from inside the body) but I haven't messed with it, not seeing any particular obvious need, and am not sure I'd want to. You know these necks are removable, too, right? I'm told you can shim them up if you want, in a little pocket hidden in the body underneath the neck. But I couldn't even budge the screws that hold it in place, and they hadn't been touched by the original owner I bought the guitar from in its 13 years of life, so I'm thinking I'll just let sleeping dogs lie.

bratsche

[BadBrad]

Very nice. I actually bought a cheap used Baby Taylor several years ago and planned to do the same thing, but never finished the project. I removed the lexan headstock veneer, took it apart, and polished the body so it's glossy, but never got beyond that. Now I have a 6 year old son, so I'm going to make it into a guitar for him. I just need to re-stain the fretboard (the stain is worn off on the first few frets), put a veneer on the headstock, and put it all back together.