The moment we have all been waiting for!

[Cheryl Watson]

Chris has extreme dexterity, a deep knowledge of the mandolin fretboard, and an intense love and dedication to the instrument. He also loves to play a lot of notes very cleanly. Bach (probably a lot of classical music) is perfect for him. I really enjoyed the You Tube preview. I'd love to buy the CD, but yes, the shipping is too much--I hope they fix that soon.

[55bar]

Talent hits a target no one else can hit; Genius hits a target no one else can see.

[mrmando]

Genius hits a target no one else can see.

Then what's the difference between genius and lunacy?

[BradKlein]

This may be stating the obvious, but no one here, or probably anywhere, is comparing Thile to J.S. Bach. That would be ridiculous.

[kidgloves2]

gen·ius
[jeen-yuhs] Show IPA

noun, plural gen·ius·es for 2, 3, 8, gen·i·i [jee-nee-ahy] Show IPA , for 6, 7, 9, 10.
1.
an exceptional natural capacity of intellect, especially as shown in creative and original work in science, art, music, etc.: the genius of Mozart. Synonyms: intelligence, ingenuity, wit; brains.

2.
a person having such capacity.

3.
a person having an extraordinarily high intelligence rating on a psychological test, as an IQ above 140. Synonyms: mental giant, master, expert; whiz, brain, brainiac. Antonyms: idiot, imbecile, half-wit, dope, moron; fool, simpleton, dunce, dullard, dolt; numskull, blockhead, nitwit, ninny.

4.
natural ability or capacity; strong inclination: a special genius for leadership. Synonyms: gift, talent, aptitude, faculty, endowment, predilection; penchant, knack, bent, flair, wizardry.

5.
distinctive character or spirit, as of a nation, period, or language.



I'd say Chris is a genius. So are Edgar, Mark O'Connor, and a few others. Bach is more well known than Chris for sure. That has to do with culture and time, not mental capacity or skill.

Also, Chris demonstrated this capacity when he was in elementary school! LOL

The question of whether Chis Thile is a genius isn't an opinion, it's a quantifiable fact. IMO

[mrmando]

gen·ius
[jeen-yuhs] Show IPA

Sorry, no genius would drink that stuff.

[55bar]

Think there's a fine line Martin

[Flattpicker]

I'm interested in hearing more. This one piece does not bode well for me. I've heard many performances of this piece on solo violin and on solo classical guitar and performed it myself some 30 years back. I can't understand the concept of balance he uses here. For instance, in the part with the moving thirds alternating with the open "D" bass note, why hold back on the moving thirds while bringing the bass to the forefront? As with the Hahn recording (made when she was 15, in her defense), what I hear on the fugue doesn't make sense to me. There's another level beyond playing fast, smooth and clean. And, of course, he is a master of that usually. So, yeah, I need to hear more. I seem to recall liking his version of the E major prelude when I heard that a year or so back.

[shortymack]

Sorry, no genius would drink that stuff.

Speak for yourself.....wait a minute, Im no genius. Cheers!

[greg_tsam]

In closing, I've made mention of this on here before...but my personal prediction is that sometime in his 40's Thile may end up starting a mandolin program at The Curtis Institute in Philly.....side-by-side with his buddy Edgar.

Take care all-

Why not. One of Chris Thile's major influences, Mark O'Conner went classical/americana/folk and made his own system.

[JeffD]

One more thought...how many musicians can stand in front of a classical crowd and play a solo Bach piece to standing ovation...and the next night play a club to a stand up crowd with drinks in hand and play the same piece with the same enthusiastic response? Probably not many.

Most of them actually.

I applaud the effort to put out an album comprised of solo Bach pieces and nothing more...not exactly the day and age of people running out and buying whole albums.

Except for the classical music folks, many of whom, like me, probably have as many as 30 or more all classical mandolin CDs.


Thile is bringing Bach on the mandolin to an audience that is not accustomed to it. Ironic that if Bach is all he played he would not have that audience, and if Bach and classical was all he did in the future he would gradually lose that audience.

[JeffD]

Thinking about this some more I think that's what differentiates Thile here. Its not that he does a wonderful job on Bach, he is a professional of the highest caliber, he is supposed to be wonderful. And he is supposed to be judged on his Bach against all the classical mandolinists who do Bach. And I think he absolutely will hold his own and take his deserved place among them.

What makes him different is not him. Its his audience. Its that his normal fan base are not predominantly classically oriented, so they are "getting it" for the first time. Thile slipped Bach under their radar before they could say "ewwww", or what I hear sometimes, "oh, funeral music". They like Thile, they trust him to give them something to like, they are open to it and then Bach gets in there and does his magic.

For that I applaud Chris Thile.

Its as if John Paul Jones or Paul McCartney were to play Bach or another classical piece on the guitar. Folks would go ape and forget all about the Romeros, and Parkening, and Isbin, and Bream, and Williams, and Segovia, and Casseus and....

[BradKlein]

With all due respect, I think I'd disagree with much of that, Jeff. It's not about someone with a big audience taking on Bach. It's about someone with the technical and musical chops to 'legitimately' take on Bach finding an audience.

Many successful musicians from rock and other genres have dabbled in classical pieces, and sometimes delighted their core audiences. But, I don't think that's what Thile's doing here. It strikes me as almost the exact opposite of the example you give of JPJ or McCartney playing the classical guitar repertoire.

[JeffD]

With all due respect, I think I'd disagree with much of that, Jeff. It's not about someone with a big audience taking on Bach. It's about someone with the technical and musical chops to 'legitimately' take on Bach finding an audience.

Many successful musicians from rock and other genres have dabbled in classical pieces, and sometimes delighted their core audiences. But, I don't think that's what Thile's doing here. It strikes me as almost the exact opposite of the example you give of JPJ or McCartney playing the classical guitar repertoire.

I am not sure I understand. I am not sure what you mean by "legitimately".

I don't mean to say its something he is doing. If I understand you correctly you are talking about his motivation, his task, which is that he is taking on Bach, and going for that audience. He is and will be gaining the fans of classical music on the mandolin, those that concentrate predominantly on classical mandolin players now. And I think you are right that's what Chris is doing, that's what he is taking on.

My last comment is about his fan base, largely out of his control, which is already larger and more ardent and loyal than can be expected with an entirely classical music repertory. And the news and the hype and the head turning is among that audience.

That another young prodigy is doing an amazing job playing Bach is not something that gets on most people's radar, even here at mandolin central except in the corners.

[BradKlein]

I guess that I'm just emphasizing that I think that 'fans of the classical mandolin' will be a very small part of the audience for this CD. I suspect (and i have been wrong before now) that most will be fans of classical music who have never given the mandolin a second thought, followed by fans of Punch Brothers, followed by Bach obsessives...

A big question is whether this will be regarded primarily as a novelty or as an interpretation of much-recorded work that rises above the pack and gets noticed by critics and fans. Maybe a good comparison is Edgar Meyer's recordings of the unaccompanied cello suites, played on bass. I don't really know how they were received by the larger world (I've enjoyed listening to them).

[JeffD]

that most will be fans of classical music who have never given the mandolin a second thought, followed by fans of Punch Brothers, followed by Bach obsessives... .

May that be the case!

I think its a stretch, but wow I hope it comes out that way.

I don't know the serious classical music market all that well, but I am a participant, having more classical music CDs (of all varieties) than any other kind of music. My impression is however that within that group there is a subset who enjoy alternate, (not originally written for), minority (not very popular, sometimes archaic), and odd (from another genre) instruments playing classical. And probably because of the music's portability, Bach is probably the most popular alternate instrument selection.

I think there are far more Bach fans than classical mandolin fans, so lets hope he catches fire amongst them.

This goes back to my original point though, perhaps emphasizing it - within classical music circles, the world is crawling young brilliant Bach interpreters. So Chris is right in the thick of it. Going by what some friends have told me (you gotta hear this you just gotta), I think Milos Karadaglic is the name tearing up the pea patch these days, or am I really way out of it.

The head turning "OMG" is coming from within the Punch Brothers and Thile fans, who probably number somewhere ahead of the classical mandolin fans, and somewhat behind the Bach enthusiasts.

[Perry Babasin]

OK... So you're gonna hate this, er some of you that is...



But I must say seeing a night club full of young college age people enthralled by a chamber performance of a Bach Concerto is pretty cool... I mean after all - Bach on the banjo!

[JeffD]

young college age people enthralled by a chamber performance of a Bach Concerto is pretty cool...

Happens every day in conservatories all over the world. Well... not the banjo part..

[SincereCorgi]

I guess that I'm just emphasizing that I think that 'fans of the classical mandolin' will be a very small part of the audience for this CD. I suspect (and i have been wrong before now) that most will be fans of classical music who have never given the mandolin a second thought, followed by fans of Punch Brothers, followed by Bach obsessives...

I think that's sort of an optimistic view. I imagine the real audience for this CD being what I think of as 'NPR people': real classical music fans buy the CD of Yo-Yo Ma playing the Shostakovich cello concerto, the NPR crowd buys Yo-Yo Ma playing the acoustic folk pop record that gets a documentary on PBS.

[bratsche]

OK... So you're gonna hate this, er some of you that is...

Not me! LOL I'd heard/seen that one before, and actually found it just as enjoyable hearing it now as I did the first time. I could really imagine JSB grinning and smiling out in the crowd, as he hoists aloft a cold one in a frosty stein.

It is very musically done, despite the "unorthodox" orchestration, the ensemble is tight, the voices carrying the lead intermesh very well stylistically, they chose a good tempo - in short, I actually find that video much more listenable than CT's solo Bach in this thread.

bratsche

[SincereCorgi]

I actually find that video much more listenable than CT's solo Bach in this thread.

I love that video too. I would be pretty happy with a CD of the Punches doing 'covers' from Praetorius through to the Cars.

[Perry Babasin]

Happens every day in conservatories all over the world. Well... not the banjo part..

... The raucous night club setting makes it a little different. It reminds me of going to David Grisman Dawg music concerts in small intimate eclectic college town venues, like the Palms Playhouse when it was in Davis. There are other clips from this evening with the band playing the usual/unusual Punch Brothers offerings, I think these are out-takes from the "How to Grow a Band" sessions... Speaking of NPR (previous post), there is a pretty good Goat Rodeo session on the NPR tiny desk concert podcast list, check it out...

[BradKlein]

... The raucous night club setting makes it a little different.

I agree that there is something real and new going on in that video of Rob Moose's Brandenburg, and it reflects something that's happening more and more in the NYC venues I frequent. These aren't 'classical' musicians dabbling in folk, or jazz musicians dabbling in 'classical'. These are folks like Edgar Meyer, Thile, Nico Muhly, Aoife O'Donovan, Gabriel Kahane who have spent their entire musical lives immersed in multiple musical genres. And they are meeting up with an audience of the same. It's a matter of degree, but I feel this is really something new, different, profound. We'll know more about what it means 20 or 30 years from now.

[Bernie Daniel]

Not to dilute the intellectual quality of discussions on the Cafe, but we have similar disagreements on a forum set up to discuss my beloved Portland Trailblazers. (I was an Oregonian long before I settled in Vermont.) There, the disagreements have to do with the relative value of the terms "superstar," "all-star," and "star." The way I think about it, while each team in each era may have its stars, we have only about 15 all-stars each year. The cream of the crop. What does it take to be a superstar? Raising the performance to another level, so that people are still talking about the player years later as one of the best ever. Maybe even as someone who changed the game. (Think Bill Russell, Dr. J, Michael Jordan, Magic and Bird.) Would Chris Thile be a superstar in the mandolin world? I imagine so. Now, does that make him a genius? I'd rather save that praise for the folks we remember centuries down the road.

First genius, IMO refers to intellectual abilities not athleticism - -there are other words for that -- someone can be incredibly gifted in their coordination, physical strength or stanima and it hardly makes them a genius I think.

I think the idea of genius as someone we remember a 100 years later has some merit -- but we also remember despots of history who were certainly NOT geniuses for even much longer than 100 years.

Likewise I submit many true geniuses have walked on this earth virtually unknown because they did not have a media or an opportunity to express themselves and they died in obscurity or known only to a few.

Now here is a crazy example -- you did athletes -- here is one step beyond that. Genius can remain hidden. What if a blue whale were really much more intelligent than a human being? How would we ever know -- without hands and living of necessity in water and breathing air the blue whale thus lacks the ability to express and to convert their genius i.e., their "ideas" into machines, or metals or plastics or mandolins who would know of their mental powers?

I think Chris is truly a genius. But will his genius, as he chooses to express it and create with it be something that lasts 100 years -- who knows?

[Perry Babasin]

Cross-genre fusion, virtuosity. I read an interview with Chris a couple of years back and he talked about the Bluegrass ensemble being the perfect vehicle for his creative musical ideas. Not just Bluegrass ideas but musical ideas and he was pretty clear about that. David Grisman was the interviewer and totally agreed. I myself came to appreciate Bill Monroe and purer Bluegrass offerings because of fusion pioneers like Grisman, whom I consider a Jazz musician more than a Bluegrass picker.