Bowlback Technique: How to hold properly?

[Martin Jonas]

IMO, it's a good idea, no matter whether you're playing a bowlback or any other style of instrument, to endeavor to develop a tactile feel early on for those things. A view of the top edge of the fretboard should then be enough to guide you. Practicing in the dark or with your eyes closed is helpful. Or you can use a mirror, if you absolutely must. Otherwise you run the risk of developing neck and/or back problems from hunching over to see what you're doing.

Also, when you play from sheet music you can't look at the music and the fretboard at the same time...

Martin

[bratsche]

Another good point, Martin!

bratsche

[Beanzy]

I can't seem to figure this out by looking at the pictures I've seen, due to the angle they are taken at. When you are holding a bowlback, what can you see of the strings and fretboard? Can you see all the strings and all the positions on the fretboard, or can you only see the top G string and the top edge of the fretboard and you just have to know where any single position is and what string your pick is on?

If I look down I can see the reflection of the nice mother of pearl on the underside of the Thomastick flat-wound strings. It would make a nice photo. But in general I should be looking at the conductor, the audience or the score and will know where my various digits are from feel. That's for the stuff where I play the Bowl-back, but even when picking the A style at a BG jam I'll be looking around to see who's having a good time and share a grin, it's way more fun and the fret's aren't going anywhere without me.

[Jim Garber]

I never look at the fretboard but some of my bowlbacks -- my Emberghers for instance -- do not have fret markers on the side of the fretboard which I do find I need esp when shifting. When I attempted some soloing in the Aonzo workshop, I put small pieces of Post-Its on the side otherwise I do get lost. For the most part I can find the positions but do need that small orientation help from time to time.

[Hany Hayek]

Also, when you play from sheet music you can't look at the music and the fretboard at the same time...

Martin

If you are a violin player, you will not need to look at the fret board, even when shifting positions. It comes natural

[Chris Berardi]

IMO, it's a good idea, no matter whether you're playing a bowlback or any other style of instrument, to endeavor to develop a tactile feel early on for those things. A view of the top edge of the fretboard should then be enough to guide you. Practicing in the dark or with your eyes closed is helpful. Or you can use a mirror, if you absolutely must. Otherwise you run the risk of developing neck and/or back problems from hunching over to see what you're doing.

bratsche

That's what I would generally think, but it got me thinking because when I hold my mandolin it looks from my eyes like this:

But, it even seems like the likes of Ugo Orlandi looks at what's going on on the fretboard.

So I thought - what do I know, I'm probably holding it wrong.

[bratsche]

Well, he has a music stand in front of him, but even in the places where he seems to be looking down rather than at the stand, he's not hunched over at all, and his eyes appear to be situated above a profile view of his mandolin, so he probably sees pretty much the same thing that you do... the top edge of the fretboard. I doubt he sees (or needs to see) all the frets his fingers are on, or the strings the pick is plucking. The sheet music is probably just there for reassurance as well, and I'll bet that if the lights suddenly went out, he could keep going as if nothing had happened. I wouldn't be so sure about the pianist (or his pageturner), though.

bratsche

[Mandoviol]

Thanks for all the feedback! The only qualm I'd have with using foam-rubber drawer liner is that I would worry about it eating into the varnish after a period of time (that stuff tends to break down after a while). But suede does it?

[JeffD]

Thanks for all the feedback! The only qualm I'd have with using foam-rubber drawer liner is that I would worry about it eating into the varnish after a period of time (that stuff tends to break down after a while).

I don't know. I think if you attached it or lined the case with it, so the connection was undisturbed and long intervals, but for the time playing I don't think its a problem. I have played using drawer liner on most of my mandolins for a long time and it hasn't made any changes to the finish. And I play a lot.

[billkilpatrick]

i think the best way to hold a bowlback is to take it up firmly by the neck with your thumb and forefinger in a determined, pinching gesture and place it gently but resolutely back in its case or instrument rack and then proceed in a jaunty, jolly fashion with a lightness of heart and a feeling that yes, it's all going to be alright ... to your much more comfortable, much better sounding flatback mandolin, hold it any ol' way you choose and apply smile, broadly.

[Tavy]

i think the best way to hold a bowlback is to take it up firmly by the neck with your thumb and forefinger in a determined, pinching gesture and place it gently but resolutely back in its case or instrument rack and then proceed in a jaunty, jolly fashion with a lightness of heart and a feeling that yes, it's all going to be alright ... To your much more comfortable, much better sounding flatback mandolin, hold it any ol' way you choose and apply smile, broadly.

lol

[Beanzy]

lol

Apparently Bill crops the photo like that just so you can't see the horns.
They've set aside a very special corner in Hades where the thermostat's broken and a mandolin player sits muttering curses in Italian.

[billkilpatrick]

humph ...

i do have a bowlback but as you might have guessed, i play it almost never.

they look great, however.

[Beanzy]

Sorry Bill,
My post is a bit ham-fisted;
I meant you have a wicked sense of humour, and then thought of one of Dante's levles having a special extra uncomfortable corner to torment the bowl-back player.

[Eugene]

i think the best way to hold a bowlback is to take it up firmly by the neck with your thumb and forefinger in a determined, pinching gesture and place it gently but resolutely back in its case or instrument rack and then proceed in a jaunty, jolly fashion with a lightness of heart and a feeling that yes, it's all going to be alright ... to your much more comfortable, much better sounding flatback mandolin, hold it any ol' way you choose and apply smile, broadly.

Incorrect!

. . . or, more accurately, speak for yourself. My archtop Gibson lives in its case and gets play almost never. Those skinny soundboxes put my right arm at an angle I simply find awkward. I'll take a good ol' Neapolitan any day. If your flatback sounds "much better," I might humbly suggest you consider a better quality bowlback, Bill.

[billkilpatrick]

humph (ll) ... horses for courses ...

i must admit i've heard some surprisingly good bowlbacks of late - full, rich, resonant sound - not at all "plinkety-plink" (like most.)

[Eugene]

Some of us actually like the twang.

[billkilpatrick]

horses for courses (ll) ...

[Eugene]

You can hear one of mine here: http://www.columbusclassicalguitar.c..._Armonico.html

[brunello97]

We're down in our house in Austin for the summer and I brought three mandos along: a Vega bowl, a Leland flatback and a Gibson A. Each is getting their turn and I've enjoyed finding the right spot in the right room for each. (The wood floors help I think.) Choosing which music to play on which has always been a delight -- or subverting those discoveries.

But to the point of the thread: I've been playing bowlbacks for so long now in positions proper and otherwise that I don't really think about it much at all. They (the Vinaccia especially) feel as comfortable as my Schwab electric, the thin line of which would probably give bro' Eug fits--for all of about two minutes and then he'd punch the fuzz pedal and launch.

Mick

[Eugene]

horses for courses (lll) ...

[brunello97]

horses for courses (lll) ...

Man, you guys are making me hungry....

Veronese Horsemeat Stew

I'd serve in a bowl, however.

Mick

[Eugene]

Mmmm . . .

[Jim Garber]

You can hear one of mine here: http://www.columbusclassicalguitar.c..._Armonico.html

Nice to hear your playing, Eugene. Calace's Tarantella. I didn't realize until I waited a bit to actually hear it. is that your Martin?

[bratsche]

humph (ll) ... horses for courses ...

i must admit i've heard some surprisingly good bowlbacks of late - full, rich, resonant sound - not at all "plinkety-plink" (like most.)

I think you've been hearing the mandolas.

bratsche