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Thread: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

  1. #1

    Default Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Hi, everybody, I know there are a lot of you on here that use this grip and some of you that have even taken some lessons from Mike Marshall, so I wanted to ask for some help from you all! So my first question is where exactly on the finger does the pick stay. To me it seems like Marshall and Thile in their Homespun video have it on the side as shown in the first picture, but I thought maybe it might be closer to the knuckle as shown the second picture. It makes me think it's more like the first picture as well because Thile says to have the index down almost parallel with the point (like I have in the third picture) and thats impossible with it by the knuckle. My second question involves the thumb joint. Mike Marshall says to keep the thumb joint straight, but whenever I hold it against the side like in the first picture, my thumb looks like the fourth picture. This is how my thumb also looks when my hand is fully open, not holding a pick. This doesn't seem right though as Marshall says to keep the thumb joint straight and Marshall and Thile and almost everyone else I see using this grip has their thumb looking more like the fifth picture, where the thumb looks ever so slightly arched. Sorry for such a long post, but I wanted to be as detailed as possible, thank you so much for your help!!!

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  2. #2
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Welcome to the Cafe!

    I have studied both the Thile and Marshall tutorials you mentioned, but I don't recall them being specific enough to answer the fine-tuning questions you're asking. So all I can do is offer my own opinion.

    I doubt there's one specific way that's "right" with all others being wrong. And you may even want to vary the grip for different styles of playing (such as chopping versus flatpicking or tremolo).

    Personally, I hold my pick like you show in photos #2 and #4. I center the pick between the first joint of my index finger and the joint of my thumb. If I try to hold it with the side of my finger as you show in photo #1, my grip suffers and the pick walks out of my grip, especially since I try to keep a loose grip. But by using the joints, it seems to make for a good pivot point when picking that's well balanced. And it's easy to firm it up for fast strumming or chopping. The "push" and "pull" of the pick by my thumb and forefinger go straight into the joints, not relying on finger pads. And I try to make my wrist do all the motion, keeping this pick hold the same.

    I would think that the thumb position shown in photo #5 would be uncomfortable for long period of play.

  3. #3
    Registered User Annette Siegel's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    I have taken lessons from Mike Marshall via the Academy of Bluegrass and he does get into detail about the basics including the pick grip...as well as not having any tension in your right hand. I've also heard Thile say that the pick used to fall out of his hand (Rt) because of how light/easy (insert preferred adjective here) he holds his pick. My take would be if you need a going over on this stuff to go ahead and check out the Mike Marshall lessons....you just might be in danger of learning a few things.
    Last edited by Annette Siegel; Aug-08-2013 at 4:23pm. Reason: Took out quote!

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=foSTvbBmxhg

    Thile shows and discusses this more at 3:45. I think his pick grip has shifted a little since the homespun video, but the same concept: hold your hand out comfortably with the thumb and pointer finger lightly touching, and insert the pick. Thile tends to hold it closer to the second knuckle than the first, and tends to have the thumb come just to the point or a small bit forward or back from that. As long as you hold it loose enough and at the right angle, using your wrist primarily, you should get the same tone and motion.

    The way you have your thumb in the fourth picture is natural if you are gripping the pick with a bit of pressure. It is not the pressure of the gripping that Thile uses to counteract the force of the strings, but simply the thumb's position on the pick as a stop. When your thumb bends in a bit like in the fourth picture, it makes it harder to get a good rounded 45ish degree angle striking the strings.

  5. #5

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    Wow, what a grey community of musicians, thank you all for your comments! Mr. Flynn I've seen this video and I have a few more questions! When I just hold my hand out totally relaxed like he says, my index and thumb don't actually touch. My hand looks like this. I'm a bit confused as to how to precede from there, my advice?
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  6. #6

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    *Great not grey hahahaha!

  7. #7

    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CCRider View Post
    *Great not grey hahahaha!
    Grey would probably be pretty accurate.

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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by CCRider View Post
    Wow, what a grey community of musicians, thank you all for your comments! Mr. Flynn I've seen this video and I have a few more questions! When I just hold my hand out totally relaxed like he says, my index and thumb don't actually touch. My hand looks like this. I'm a bit confused as to how to precede from there, my advice?
    This is all somewhat subjective, but I've learned all my technique from obsessively watching and imitating Thile because I like his tone more than all others. So take any of this with a grain of salt, as long as you get to the tone you want, all is well. THere is no one "correct" way.

    From that picture, to hold the pick exactly as Thile does you could have to curl your index finger in a little more. When I do it my index finger points almost parallel with my thumb. It is not important that it be that way, and if you concentrate too much on curling that finger you could create tension. The point of curling the pointer in some is to ensure it doesn't get in the way of the pick flexing or eliminating too much surface area of the pick.

    From picture one I think you could insert the pick with the top a little above your first knuckle and be fine. You may find that curling that index finger in a tiny bit more may help. As for your other fingers, they can do whatever else you'd like, as long as it feels comfortable and doesn't create tension with the arm.

    I was really obsessive about this for a while, but I've found that as long as you hold it loose enough and strike the strings at the proper angle you can get the same tone and movement Thile does. You'll do great.

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    formerly Philphool Phil Goodson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

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    Compton's grip. I think this is pretty much what Thile and Marshall advocate.
    Phil

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    Registered User Jim Ferguson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Great photos all........I agree with Phil's comment & photos........that is how I hold my pick........but I do find myself changing my grip depending on whether I am chopping or picking & also on the speed.
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  13. #11

    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Which is best? Take your pick!

  14. #12
    somnamandolist Killian King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Philphool View Post
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    Compton's grip. I think this is pretty much what Thile and Marshall advocate.
    So I come from many years of guitar playing myself. I focused initially on left hand technique and have found that I am pretty comfortable following advice such as Mike Marshall's (which seems to be the SOP).

    This thread got me thinking more about right hand which has opened a whole new area of focus.

    The way I hold a guitar pick is a similar thumb position, but my index finger holds the pick more with the pad of the finger and closer to perpendicular to the strings. It looks like your photo shows index finger holding the pick using the side of the finger (and index finger curled and parallel to the strings.

    I also have been playing with my middle, ring and pinky fingers straight and resting pinky and ring on mando top below the strings.

    I think I can learn to play with my fingers curled, but the pick on the side of the index finger sure feels weird.

  15. #13
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Killian View Post
    The way I hold a guitar pick is a similar thumb position, but my index finger holds the pick more with the pad of the finger and closer to perpendicular to the strings. It looks like your photo shows index finger holding the pick using the side of the finger (and index finger curled and parallel to the strings..
    Sounds like you use the popular "ickkk a bug" grip, similar to how you would pick up a dead moth from a table top.

    I find that holding the pick with my thumb and the side of my index finger keeps it closer to my hand, and thus there is less give - more energy directly from the arm to the strings, less wasted in flexing the fingers, were they extended as in the "ickkk a bug" grip.

    Also feels like I have more control for fast picking etc.

    I have seen others who are very effective with other grips, but I find for me that what Marshall advocates seems to work best.
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    MandolaViola bratsche's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    the "ickkk a bug" grip

    bratsche
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    somnamandolist Killian King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by JeffD View Post
    Sounds like you use the popular "ickkk a bug" grip, similar to how you would pick up a dead moth from a table top.

    I have seen others who are very effective with other grips, but I find for me that what Marshall advocates seems to work best.
    Thanks. I didn't know that it had a name.

    I am going to work on the Marshall grip and see what happens. It just feels a bit unorthodox at the moment.

  18. #16
    Registered User mikeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Here is a really good look at Chris Thile's grip and Bach to boot:



    Mike Keyes

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    Registered User Jamie S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    That is spectacular.

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    Mando-Thrasher
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Hi Folks!

    I am also in the process of working on my right hand technique. I have found the following two videos by 'hrdrockgrrl' to be some of the best content on right hand technique. The first video focuses on holding the pick and basic strum, while the second is about tremolo. The author is particularly skilled at describing some key subtle details, as well as demonstrating a viable practice plan with the metronome. If anyone here knows this person, please tell her THANKS for posting the content! I also second Mike Marshall's handling of the subject in his Bluegrass Academy lesson.

    Right Hand Technique for Mandolin:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WycCmb-F41o

    Playing Fast, Precise Tremolo on the Mandolin:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XxvD41asKCY

  22. #19
    Americanadian Andrew B. Carlson's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    There's a thread somewhere in this section about Mike Compton's grip. Long story short, it vastly improved my tone on both mando and guitar once I got it to feel right. The only difference is that I have closed hand on mando and half open for guitar. Tony Rice has a short talk on pick grip on one if his older videos that also helped me a bit.

  23. #20
    Registered User mikeyes's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Here are the videos mentioned above. They are very good:

    Tremolo



    Right hand grip/technique



    Mike Keyes

  24. #21
    somnamandolist Killian King's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    I started implementing the classic pick grip every time that I practice. It has become very comfortable in a relatively short period of time.

    I am also beginning to feel some of the benefits in terms of tremolo and playing faster with more control (mentioned above by JeffD).

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    Registered User Jamie S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    I have been really persevering with my pick grip for the last week and already it is starting to become more natural. I can see how it helps with good muscle memory playing, as it forces the hand to stop anchoring the fingers on the fret-board.

    Also I love those hrdrockgrrl videos - when I started out I found them the best on Youtube. Here is her Bach Prelude for mandolin (well, violin, but you get my point...):


  26. #23
    Middle-Aged Old-Timer Tobin's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Wow, that was pretty nicely done. She gets good strong voice out of that mandolin, using that pick grip and playing style. She does look a little tense overall, though! From her facial expressions to the movements of both hands, she would probably benefit from loosing up and relaxing a bit. Her pick grip and wrist movement seem very stiff. Still sounds great, though.

  27. #24
    Registered User Jamie S's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Yeah, she makes absolutely no bones about the fact that there are errors and issues in this video, and that she is in the process of getting better. It's actually really useful to see someone who is upper-intermediate as a new player.

  28. #25
    Innocent Bystander JeffD's Avatar
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    Default Re: Marshall/Thile Pick Grip Questions PLEASE HELP!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by Jamie S View Post
    I have been really persevering with my pick grip for the last week and already it is starting to become more natural. I can see how it helps with good muscle memory playing, as it forces the hand to stop anchoring the fingers on the fret-board.

    Also I love those hrdrockgrrl videos - when I started out I found them the best on Youtube. Here is her Bach Prelude for mandolin (well, violin, but you get my point...):
    Well done. I loved it. Beyond just the mandolin playing I was enjoying the Bach. You've got it.
    A talent for trivializin' the momentous and complicatin' the obvious.

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