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Thread: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

  1. #1

    Default "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Recently I have got a bowlback mandolin which bears no labels nor other signs of its maker/vendor. The previous owner also had no info on the instruments provenance.

    Here's a photo of its pick-guard which might be sufficient for some knowledgeable folks to ID the mandolin. However, if you need more photos, I'd oblige happily.

    Click image for larger version. 

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  2. #2
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Pickguard shape is Lyon & Healy/Washburn but better to post more pics. It won't cost you any additional and we would have more info.
    Jim

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  3. #3
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Curious to see the scratch plate / pick guard cover over one of the rings in the rosette...

    Mick
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  4. #4

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Here's a few more shots of hopefully some distinguishing features of the instrument.
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  5. #5
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Certainly looks like the headstock profile that L+H used on their Washburns, Peter, but those were typically well labeled. This one looks super clean and in fine condition. Some 'overall' shots: front back and side would be helpful along with the details. Bound to be a Lyon and Healy mandolin, but I am a long way from my copy of Keef Pleijsier's book to try to track something down. Someone will weigh in shortly. The tailpiece and headstock are great. Love the soundhole and top banding inlay. The neck carving kind of creeps me out

    Where did you dig this one up?

    Mick
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  6. #6

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Mick, the instrument is indeed in a very fine condition......in fact, the chrome/nickel plated tuning gear cover as well as the tail piece cover almost look like they are of a very recent vintage. All the inlay pieces are still securely lodged in their places, all of which speaks of a fine level of craftsmanship applied here. I am probably biased somewhat here because I come from the violin world, however, it has been hard for me to find a vintage bowlback mandolin without a host of structural problems, let alone cosmetic ones. Is that because of mass production at the time, relatively low mandolin prices, modestly skilled workers on mandolin production lines, etc.....I do not really understand it.

    This mandolin I found on an eBay auction, and I was the only bidder.

  7. #7
    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Good questions, Peter. I can't say I really have good answers. But I have a 'working theory' however unproven. I think some of it comes down to a simple thing: cases. There has been a lot of talk around here of early mandolins succumbing to 'over stringing' using heavier gauge strings perhaps of more modern vintage. No doubt that is true. But it also seems that mandolins that have been kept in a good case in the closet have survived pretty well(instead of kicking around in a craxxy canvas case--if at all--up in the attic.) Your L+H, no doubt, seems to have been well guarded in its lifetime.

    A lot of basic good craft went into any bowlback mandolin simply based on its construction method. (Well, almost any.) I think part of the reason so many old Gibsons survive is that they came with good cases and that people took care of them. Were Emberghers (or De Meglios) that much better made or did people simply take better care of them? Probably a bit of both.

    Now how about some good pictures of that mandolin?

    Mick
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  8. #8

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Interesting piece. It certainly looks Lyon & Healy-like, even what little I can see of the soundboard profile and the neck-body joint. Is there anything stamped on the head block?

  9. #9

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Did L&H ever use red dyed purfling? The engraving is certainly machine-engraved, as a "stay-down" engraving strategy was used, and the whole thing has a 60's or 70's vibe to me. L&H did use inlays with moons and stars on their banjos, etc., but it seems like this might have been a L&H "inspired" copy from a later period. The neck details were obviously added after construction, and have a completely different aesthetic and technique. They were applied by hand, either with a burnisher or, more likely, a Dremel-like rotary tool.

  10. #10
    Registered User 8ch(pl)'s Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Lots of staves in the back, a sign of a more upper-end instrument. If you put strings on they must be extra light, Modern strings will put too much tension and can cause neck separation. This is a lovely mandolin.

  11. #11
    Mandolin tragic Graham McDonald's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    I think you will find that you will get a better response from those of us interested in these instruments by posting a simple front-on, side and back views of the instrument so we get an overall impression of them, rather than bits of details. Otherwise it is a it like identifying the Mona Lisa from an eyebrow.

    Lyon & Healy instruments can often be identified easily by the steep angle of the head, around 22 degrees rather than the 14 degrees or so of most other instruments. There is a suggestion in one of your pics of the instrument having a fairly narrow, tapering in to the neck shape, body, which again was typical of of late 1880s/ early 1890s Lyon & Healy mandolins. Hubert Pleijsier's book on Washburn list an 1889 Style 80 which cost $75 then and featured those little pearl diamond shapes in the rosette, but not in the body edging. That might suggest yours is a fancier one-off 'presentation' grade instrument, but without overall pictures it is hard to tell and make any meaningful suggestions. There are several contributors here, of whom I am in continuous awe, who have spent many years accumulating an astonishing collection of images of early American mandolins and can make exceptionally well informed suggestions of most instruments' provenances when given good, overall pictures to work from rather than bits and pieces.

    cheers

    Quote Originally Posted by peterk View Post
    Here's a few more shots of hopefully some distinguishing features of the instrument.

  12. #12
    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Unfortunately, I have temporarily lost access to my computer and can only with some effort access my library (adequately backed up) for the moment.

    Marty, I do believe, off the top of my head, that L&H did use red-dyed purfling. Definitely not 60s or 70s IMHO.

    I have seen a lot of variants in the American Conservatory line and quite a few that AFAIK do not appear in the catalogs, at least any ones that I have seen. There are even some of the AC line that are fancier than Washburns.
    Jim

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  13. #13

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    Here's a few more shots of the instrument.

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  14. #14

    Default Re: "Nameless" bowlback mandolin

    @peterk, did you ever identify this mandolin? I was trying to identify a mandolin I inherited the other day, and this is the closest to mine I've been able to find. The inlad on the head, engraving on the back of the neck, and the inlay around the edge of the body are very similar. Here are some photos on mine.

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