sam bush

[Dan of SC]

Hello all, I went to a street festival last night (10/12/13) in Greenville SC, because I saw that Sam Bush and band were playing. Having heard him on public radio and you tubes I thought he was a great musician. I still do. We got to the stage a few minutes early and parked ourselves up close. I was surprised to see a guy warming up on a full drum set and another on electric bass. When Sam came out he first played a couple of jazzy tunes on the fiddle. They were pretty cool, I didn't know he could fiddle so good, but the bass guitar and bass drum were quite loud. Then he got on the mando to do some of his newgrass and I swear the bass guitar and drum got even louder. He was playing the mando so fast and the whole band was so loud he could have been playing the cheapest mando in the world and no one could have told the difference. After about 5 songs we had to leave, and for 1-2 hours our ears were still ringing. It really seems like a waste of talent to me. Anyone else had a similar experience?

[Ivyguitar]

Similar experience. His band is loud and leans rock and roll. That's the Newgrass thing though.

Wonderful fiddler. He fiddles on a lot of other artists records.

[dcoventry]

Both of the above comments are fairly accurate.

I personally LOVE what he does. No one else is really doing that combination, maybe Bela with the Flecktones as a banjo comparison.

Sam does what Sam does, and he does it so very well with much energy and joy that he beams.

Somewhere a classical violin player is shaking his head watching a BG'er shred alongside a Dobro and Banjo. Kinda the same.

Any one that sweats like that must be OK....

[tmsweeney]

often times at festivals I have seen Sam at a workshop playing straight up Bluegrass and then a few hours later he is up with his band doing the electric fiddle/mando rock stuff, which you can tell he loves doing.
To me it's all good and really shows how versatile his talent is, a showman of great renown.

I wouldn't expect everyone to like everything he does, I doubt he does either, now when are we going to convince him to run for U.S Congress ?

[jim simpson]

Our band played a festival this summer that Sam was headlining. We sat to the rear of the field from the stage. It was loud but tolerable. The mandolin and fiddle were mixed well with the electric instruments, I was surprised how well. Our guitarist said we need a drummer!

Even acoustic bands can play too loud for various venues. We played a gig last night where the owners told us we were one of the very few that don't play too loudly at their venue. We easily could if we didn't listen to the wishes of others.

My only previous Sam experience was when he was part of the Bela Fleck Acoustic Tour. It was bluegrass based with no drums. Lots of extended songs but very enjoyable.

[Chief]

It sure ain't bluegrass, if that's what you were looking for- he left that behind many years ago. Sam does his own thing, and I think he's one of the most incredible musicians I've ever seen. He's set so many trends and pushed so many boundaries over the years. And I've loved it all. I think like many killer musicians, he gets bored and needs to shake things up every once and a while. Might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I love the variety. Keep crankn' Sam!

[stinsc]

I was there and had a different experience. I haven't seen Sam in a few years live but I was impressed with the tightness of the band and with song selections. Sam opened with fiddle and moved quickly to mandolin and played several acoustic songs, Monroe's - Roll on Buddy, Beatles- I have seen a Face, BMW -One Love, Bringing in the Georgia Mail, and a few more. He then moved to the electric set and I found that to be great, just different. Opened with a JJ Cale song in memory of him, and then turned it up with everyone showing their skill at electric; Moujin and Vestal were awesome! Sam rocked hard with killer riffs on the electric mando, but surprisingly didn't play any slide. Ended the show with Laps in Seven which lasted several minutes. He came out with Tony Williamson for an encore and played Sitting on Top of the World. He had me smiling when I left. He didn't play all BG but then again the festival wasn't a BG crowd.

[re simmers]

First of all, Sam is a world class fiddler. He was a multi-year champion as a teenager and has continued to improve from there.

I've been to 3 Sam concerts in the past couple years. He did not have drums with him. But the music was loud by anyone's standards, and, of course, the lights....but that didn't impact the sound!

I prefer acoustic music. I prefer not to leave with my ears ringing, but I did each time. However, I loved it. Sam's music is tight, energetic, and filled with emotion. The only thing that I really do not enjoy....and I love instrumentals......are the 10 minute instrumentals that seem endless. NGR went that way towards the end.

Unless someone corrects me, I think Sam has been playing in a band with electrified acoustic instruments for about 30 (?) years. His mandolin and fiddle have been plugged in for a long time, and so were all the members of NGR, and all the members of the Sam Bush Band. It is too loud, but he's still selling tickets!

Bob

[almeriastrings]

Sam is an amazing musician. Fiddle, mandolin... fantastic. Incredibly creative, and he can do it all, from Monroe to 'Newgrass' which he practically invented. Nice guy, too.

Why the heck he feels he needs to damage his audience's hearing, though, completely beats me. I just do not get that at all. If people are leaving with 'ringing' ears, then they have been subjected to dangerous (and in many places illegal) noise levels. Levels that in industry, you would be required by law to wear hearing protection to work in. There is an interesting chart of what various sound pressure levels are, and what they can do to you:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

A more detailed discussion:

http://www.healthyhearing.com/conten...s-hearing-loss

This is serious stuff, as extended exposure to high levels like this can cause irreversible damage.

Maybe someone who does play extremely loud could explain why they feel the need to do so? You don't need to do it to get a particular 'sound', you can get the same sound at quite low levels. You want distortion and feedback? Easy. You can get that from a 5W amp! If everyone in the place can hear every note clearly, why insist on deafening them in addition?

[Wupeide]

Hey guys,

Sam Bush gets a huge amount of respect, not only from fans but also from fellow mandolin players. I recently watched a clip in which Thile had some really nice things to say about him. However, I don't really get it... He plays well and I love the look of his signature Gibson. Wish I had one. However he doesn't really knock my socks off the way many others do.

So what am I missing? Can you suggest a few recordings or youtube clips? What's your favorite Sam Bush recording? (I hope the OP doesn't mind me asking this.)

Cheers everyone!

-Peter

[Canuckle]

I don't think there's any need to blame Sam Bush in this situation. He's not the sound guy afterall. It seems like almost every venue I go to has the music too loud. It's usually based on the sound guy trying to mix for the back of the room (or festival lawn) and there's an awful lot of sound guys that are going on deaf.

The simple solution is to buy some ear plugs, especially the ones you get in music stores. They cut out most of the extreme frequencies but still let you hear what you want to hear without having to hear ringing in your ears after the show.

Maybe if the volume wasn't so loud, you might have been able to enjoy the music more.

[Wupeide]

Hey guys,

Sam Bush gets a huge amount of respect, not only from fans but also from fellow mandolin players. I recently watched a clip in which Thile had some really nice things to say about him. However, I don't really get it... He plays well and I love the look of his signature Gibson. Wish I had one. However he doesn't really knock my socks off the way many others do.

So what am I missing? Can you suggest a few recordings or youtube clips? What's your favorite Sam Bush recording? (I hope the OP doesn't mind me asking this.)

Cheers everyone!

-Peter

[Ivan Kelsall]

Sam Bush is an awesome musician for sure & puts everything into everything he does musically - but,too loud is too loud.You get to a point where all you hear is LOUD,& the music disappears. I don't really care for the stuff he does with his current band. My favourite Sam Bush 'period' was when he was with New Grass Revival,they played some terrific tunes. No mandolin in this one,but for me one of their best 'Hold To A dream',one of Tim O'Brien's beautiful songs (has that guy ever written a bad one ?),
Ivan
http://youtu.be/p2s4UztLuTo

[Jim]

I too first saw SB with NGR in about 1979 or 1980 they were backing up Leon Russel. Been a big fan ever since. I enjoy his electric as well as acoustic playing, though prefer acoustic.

Maybe someone who does play extremely loud could explain why they feel the need to do so? You don't need to do it to get a particular 'sound', you can get the same sound at quite low levels. You want distortion and feedback? Easy. You can get that from a 5W amp! If everyone in the place can hear every note clearly, why insist on deafening them in addition?

I don't feel the need to play super loud to get "that sound" but have played with an run sound for people who do. I have 2 theories regarding that. One is the sound of a really driven speaker that they don't feel they get with any other means. The other is the actual feel of the sound preasure. Bass players seem to feel this way most, but I get it from electric guitar and Harmonica players too. I do NOT feel this way myself and it can make getting a decent stage volume/ monitor mix a nightmare. If hired to play with a person on stage who needs that sort of volume I won't take the gig, tired of my ears ringing and not being able to hear myself. When playing electric I use low wattage amps and signal processing to achieve these effects.

[AlanN]

What's your favorite Sam Bush recording?

Late As Usual, hands down. Has it all - songs, grass, fiddle tunes, jazz...and Jethro!

[tmsweeney]

I second the vote for "Late as Usual", also recommend "Short Trip Home" with Bell, Meyer and Marshall.
He does some great work on a lot of Tony Rice stuff, "Acoustics" for one.
He also plays on a lot of John Hartford records.

[FLATROCK HILL]

Sam is an amazing musician. Fiddle, mandolin... fantastic. Incredibly creative, and he can do it all, from Monroe to 'Newgrass' which he practically invented. Nice guy, too.

Why the heck he feels he needs to damage his audience's hearing, though, completely beats me. I just do not get that at all. If people are leaving with 'ringing' ears, then they have been subjected to dangerous (and in many places illegal) noise levels. Levels that in industry, you would be required by law to wear hearing protection to work in. There is an interesting chart of what various sound pressure levels are, and what they can do to you:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

A more detailed discussion:

http://www.healthyhearing.com/conten...s-hearing-loss

This is serious stuff, as extended exposure to high levels like this can cause irreversible damage.

Maybe someone who does play extremely loud could explain why they feel the need to do so? You don't need to do it to get a particular 'sound', you can get the same sound at quite low levels. You want distortion and feedback? Easy. You can get that from a 5W amp! If everyone in the place can hear every note clearly, why insist on deafening them in addition?

Great post! You said it much better than I could have.

I do put some blame on the players as well as the sound guys. Mostly though, I think it is the responsibility of the listener to avoid the situation. Whether you're at the airport, a construction zone, a concert or the movie theater, if it's too LOUD...LEAVE or wear some kind of hearing protection.
I still once in a while hear some young person (or some foolish person, or a combination of both) say "if it's too loud, you're too old." The inference being that somehow 'louder is better' and more enjoyable to a real music fan. The irony is that those avid young fans will most likely be unable to hear much of anything before long.

The reason I sound like a grouchy old man is that I am one. My ears still work though. Now...Get off of my lawn!

[AlanN]

I second the vote for "Late as Usual", also recommend "Short Trip Home" with Bell, Meyer and Marshall.
He does some great work on a lot of Tony Rice stuff, "Acoustics" for one.
He also plays on a lot of John Hartford records.

Oh yes. If we want to consider Sideman Sam, there are literally dozens of things he has graced - Mark O'Connor, Tut Taylor, all those Tony Rice records - his solo on Mar West is just unreal -, JD Crowe things, the list goes on and on, and mostly from many years/decades ago now.

I was messing with his Crooked Smile the other day. Just lovely.

and btw, that awesome Mar West solo is expertly tabbed out by Dave Peters in his Masters of the Mandolin book.

[Wolfboy]

Your CD collection is incomplete without Tony Rice's Manzanita, and Sam's all over that one, on mandolin, fiddle and harmony vocals.

My personal favorite New Grass Revival CD, by far, is On the Boulevard - amazing album - the Sam/John/Bela/Pat lineup before they decided to court acceptance from the mainstream country charts. (Not that that work wasn't good too, but OTB just sounds more genuine to me somehow.)

Another good Sideman Sam On Mandolin CD is Dan Crary Guitar - all instrumental more-or-less-bluegrass, and the lineup is Crary on guitar, Sam on mando, Bela on banjo, Mark O'Connor on fiddle and T. Michael Coleman on bass. Any further questions?

[AlanN]

Sam's soloing on Berserkely, off a Mark O. album - maybe Markology - is fantastic. His playing on that so caught my ear that I asked John McGann to do his transcription magic on it, back in 1988. John nailed it, with all of Sam's doodlings and phraseology.

As Tony Rice once remarked, any time Sam touches the instrument is special...

[Dale Ludewig]

And let's not forget "Drive", one of the best, IMHO. And Tales from the Acoustic Planet, "The Bluegrass Sessions". Oh yes, The Telluride Sessions....

[Tom Coletti]

I do put some blame on the players as well as the sound guys. Mostly though, I think it is the responsibility of the listener to avoid the situation. Whether you're at the airport, a construction zone, a concert or the movie theater, if it's too LOUD...LEAVE or wear some kind of hearing protection.

At most concerts, there isn't a good distribution of speakers throughout the audience, so the setup in the front needs to be able to project all the way to the back of the crowd, and if you're near the front, well, you will feel the soundwaves as much as you hear them. I went to a Stopover show in Monterey with some friends last year, and being four rows from the front, our ears rang for the next day or two after that and my chest was kinda sore from the bass.

Pretty much all non-acoustic concerts are like this, so it's not a Sam Bush thing as much as it is a speaker distribution thing. It's all part of the experience.

--Tom

[Wolfboy]

And let's not forget "Drive", one of the best, IMHO. And Tales from the Acoustic Planet, "The Bluegrass Sessions". Oh yes, The Telluride Sessions....

Oh HELL yes. Three more absolute must-have favorites right there. Those three and the three I mentioned, and you won't be asking what the big deal is about Sam Bush anymore, for sure.

[re simmers]

IMHO, Sam's best stuff is all over the place. I'm a Sam fanatic. It is too loud and I don't like the 10 minute instrumentals, but he is the MAN. His performance of "Girl From the North Country" with just his mandolin is second to none for a mandolin solo performance. He did some great stuff with Hartford and also with Rice and also with Vassar.

As for those responsible for the sound level, sorry, but it is Sam, 100%! No one else. The last 3 venues I attended, Sam brought and set up his own sound. He had 2 sound men that he intriduced as working and traveling with him. One on stage and one in the house. Sam is the boss.

I read in a Frets article many years ago that NGR had to go electric to get anyone's attention when they were fronting other electric acts. Plus, I'm sure it's easier to control and mix the sound.

Bob

[Wupeide]

Sorry if I hijacked this thread - just want to say thanks to everyone for all the suggestions! I am gonna spend this morning listening.

Cheers!

-Peter