Disaster!

[Russ Donahue]

Hi Folks. Need some advice.

Purchased a Strad-O-Lin, and it arrived a few days ago. Cleaned it up, noticed tuners were stiff, cleaned them up a bit and lightly lubricated and they moved smoothly. Put some strings on this morning then brought them up to pitch...one of the G string tuners got tight then stopped. A little more effort and the bakelite peg came off.

Here are my questions...

1. Best way to clean/lubricate the tuners as they will now be coming off the instrument.
2. Can I reattach the peg? If so, how?
3. Is the best course a new set of tuners? If so, any suggestions? You'll see from the photos that the pegs are that shade of brown..
4. Any suggestions I haven't thought of to ask (please be polite)?

The instrument is sweet sounding. Those interesting screw holes on it's top keep it from reaching a collectible level...but that isn't what it was purchased for. Plans are for it to serve as my office instrument...we have great conference rooms with 14 foot ceilings that are wonderful practice rooms during the day.

[jim simpson]

I have chucked a string winder into a drill and spun the tuners after oiling them. Not sure what oil I used, whatever was handy. I've replaced tuner buttons using Frank Ford's method (Google him). The method involves drilling the hold opening and pressing them on with a vise. I've used the method several times and it's worked well consistently. I suspect that the other buttons are likely to break apart with any resistance. I would replace the buttons with your choice of what's available. I'm not sure if modern tuners would match the spacing or not.

[bmac]

frets.com has lots of info on tuner maintenance, lubrication and repair... Although you may not be able to exactly match your present tuner knobs. You can get replacement knobs at Stuart MacDonald and I am sure other suppliers. They are not difficult to install.... The holes in the headstock for tuners are standard and a replacement tuner set should fit without difficulty.. I have also found that sometimes on an old instrument like yours the wood, for whatever reason has swelled and locked the tuner tightly in their holes. That sounds like what happened to yours... In any case running a drill through the tuner hole (the same size as the hole) will clean out any crud or swollen wood and get the tuner working again.... Don't over do it... just one pass through the holes will do it. Better to do that than try to muscle it. I have also found that if you check ebay.com looking for mandolin tuners you will likely find a set which will match the tuners you have. People often dismantle old instrument and sell the tuners. Stumac also sells less expensive generic replacement tuner sets which I have found work quite well... They just look a little different than the original tuners.

I think you will find your Strad-O-Lin a better sounding instrument than you bargained for. Yours looks to be in fine cosmetic shape which is unusual.

for replacing tuner knobs without a screw on the knob simply google "replace tuner knobs on mandolin" and you will find lots of info. They are not difficult to replace. Lots of folks have done the tuner repairs you are going to do.

I did it and if I recall I simply heated the bare tuner knob shaft and pressed the plastic knob onto it,,, the shaft being hot enough to soften the plastic and allow the knob to be thrust on. to do this you don't have to dismantle the tuner mechanism itself... I used an electric soldering iron to heat the shaft until hot enouth to soften the plastic knob as it was being thrust on. The vice method on above post would do the job just as well or better., but heat certainly does soften the plastic.

Oil - I just use a very small amount of household oil (3 in 1 if I recall). Just a tiny bit on a tooth pick will be enough to oil the moving parts on a tuner... Use as little as possible but the tuner should turn easily. There is no reason to oil the metal to wood contact area in the headstock hole.

[Darren Bailey]

hey Russ, was that mandoin on Ebay not so long ago? I seem to recall the screw holes. I was tempted to go for it myself - nice looking instrument and I'm glad it sounds as good as you hoped. Good luck with the repair - must be very disappointing.

[bratsche]

I've seen tri-flow lubricant recommended for tuner gear mechanisms, and use it myself now. Bought a 2-oz bottle, and it should last me for life, even if hubby borrows it occasionally for his bicycle...

bratsche

[mandolirius]

A problem, hardly a "disaster".

[Bernie Daniel]

A problem, hardly a "disaster".

subjective, perspectives, and matters of opinion.....

[Russ Donahue]

subjective, perspectives, and matters of opinion.....

Thanks for the support Bernie, but Mandolirius is right. Problem. Since posting I appear to have successfully cleaned and lubricated the gears, and then remounted the peg to the post. So, the problem seems to be on its way to solution. Give the epoxy time to set around the post and that will help me determine the next step....

I appreciate the quick response from my fellow members of the community.

[Russ Donahue]

Hey Darren -
I didn't see it on E-bay....it was a CL listing that Bmac pointed out on the Cafe last week. Maybe that's why the seller couldn't give me any detail about his father's use of the instrument.

Regardless, its sweet sounding (or was until I disassembled it!).

[Timbofood]

When they happen to you they are disasters when it's someone else, problem. If it's you the problem is almost always a big headache by perception, I understand completely! I hope it all comes together without more disastrous headaches. It's fixable.

[Bill Snyder]

Read THIS by Paul Hostetter.
Was the tuner knob broken or did it just come off? Did I understand correctly that you have epoxied it back on? If so that is probably as good as you can do without replacing the knobs with new ones.

[Russ Donahue]

Bill....
You understood correctly, it broke and came off...epoxy seems to be holding it together and on the post. Fortunately it isn't highly visible...thanks for the link to Paul's page. I found that earlier today and took his advice on cleaning and lubricating.

[bmac]

I think when one buys a 90 year old instrument a broken tuner knob is hardly a disaster... A problem but not a disaster A disaster is when your son uses your mando as a baseball bat.

[bmac]

I have two mandos which were literally crushed. One' a Strad-O-Lin broken in half (likely from being sat upon) and the other, A Harmony Bat Wing was apparently used as a baseball bat or weapon. Cracks galore and about 30 separate fragments The interesting thing about that one is that it must have happened a few days after purchase new, because there is absolutely no wear on any part and the case seems brand new.

The Strad-O-Lin restored nicely and is my main player. The Bat Wing is just about finished and will be a nice looking instrument. The Bat Wing is not noted for its sound but is about the coolest looking mando ever made.

[belbein]

Bart, you're a man after my own heart: No disaster is too much of a disaster to be a challenge. I hope you're going to share some pix of the process.

[AaronVW]

It has been fun to read all these posts about disasasters vs. problems. In my limited experience building and repairing instruments, I have found that one of the most difficult/challenging/fun things is learning how to recover from "disasters..." I wonder if some of the more experienced builders still feel this way or if it is all part of the learning process.

[bmac]

Bart, you're a man after my own heart: No disaster is too much of a disaster to be a challenge. I hope you're going to share some pix of the process.

belbein:
I will give it a try... I am impaired and found it virtually impossible to remember the process but I will try again.... I do have good photos. Glad to meet another repair fanatic.

[Russ Donahue]

Thought I'd post how the tuner button saga is progressing.

The original glue option didn't last, and the button ended up just turning round the shaft, but did nothing to move the string post. So, with the advice of a friend I took that tuner apart, gently cleaned the worm gear and the drive gear with a small file to get all the burrs and other "stuff" cleaned that the naptha and wire brush missed. The we packed the inside of the button with baking soda and slowly removed a bit at a time until we got the button to seat properly on the shaft. Then we droppped two drops of CA onto the baking soda and reseated the button on the shaft. After letting it set for several hours, the button feels solid, it turns the gears and tunes the string to pitch.

Baking soda and CA...what's the chemistry behind this?

[Lee Callicutt]

Thought I'd post how the tuner button saga is progressing.

Baking soda and CA...what's the chemistry behind this?

I believe the CA acts as a monomer to form a polymer with the Baking soda, but I am not a chemist!

[MikeEdgerton]

There's a paragraph under "Uses" that speaks a little about the process. It's not definitive.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanoacrylate

[Russ Donahue]

Science behind the voodoo....how cool.

And of course, one of us was using a cotton rag while doing this. Good to know we avoided a serious exothermic reaction!

[Phil Goodson]

....

Baking soda and CA...what's the chemistry behind this?

Like putting gravel in concrete when you pour it.