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Thread: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Nice to see this in the paper this morning:

    http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/15/bo...novations.html

    I am digging the A/V features the site has been developing as late:

    http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2...html?ref=books

    "Pulled into Nazareth...." Indeed.

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I know one of the editors. Peter is a serious collector and when he picks a type of instrument he goes all the way. When I first met him he had a house of minstrel banjos. Over the last years he has been into mid 19th century guitars, Martin and the like.

    The Martin factory is a great place and the museum itself is worth visiting. I posted a bunch of pictures from there last spring on a thread (not sure where it is) when I had a bunch of time to kill on my kid's college visit near there.
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    Registered User dusty miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Good article, I live close but have never been to see it.
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    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I am no fan of any Martin made since 1963 with the exception of the 1976 HD-28 and the recent run of so-called "Authentic" guitars. I have an '05 D-18 Authentic which is a decent axe. The rest of their guitars are bland and not very good sounding compared to the older instruments. You won't see many Bluegrass players with the newer instruments in their hands Not enough pop since they started making them by the 10s of thousands every year. YMMV and rock on...

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    Mando-Accumulator Jim Garber's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I agree that not every Martin guitar is to die for. I am definitely a vintage fan but on my visit there they did have a high end room behind the store and I played prob 10 guitars some of which I liked. Of Martins I have played I do like the Golden Era or Authentic or whatever you call them. They do still know how to make excellent guitars.

    Speaking of Martin, did you see this 1983 anniversary AK model mandolin in the classifieds? Strange that they would call it a 45-AK when it looks like a Model E made of koa -- an EEK!
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    Registered User Mike Arakelian's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    What a great article. If you are, or ever have been, a guitar player, you need to visit the Martin factory for their tour. I've been twice and will go again if I'm in the area. Before the tour begins, you can spend time in a smallish room with about a dozen Martin's hanging on the wall. You're encouraged to pick up and play as many of them as you'd like. They also have display cases with some really vintage guitars. They've tried for years to add Willie Nelson's to the collection and have offered to build him anything he wants...so far he's declined. In the tour itself, you'll see and have explained to you every step of their guitar and string making process. It's really neat when you catch a couple of workers on break as I think they all play the guitar and it's very common for them to pick one up that is complete or nearly so, and just play away. Finally, a visit to their store to buy strings, tee shirts or whatever (no guitars) is a great way to wind up the visit.

    It's great that their instruments are well enough thought of to display them as art. Don't know if I'll get a chance to see that, but sure would love to!

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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Quote Originally Posted by bjewell View Post
    ... no fan of any Martin made since 1963 with the exception ...
    And in 100 years, folks will say that about the danged Martins made after 2063!
    - Ed

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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Martin seems to put more loving care into building their "Limited editions" than they do to the run of the mill D-18`s, D-28`s etc..Some of their limited editions sound as great as the older guitars, you just have to play some and pick and choose...

    The factory is a great place and be prepared to spend a lot of time taking the tour....

    Willie

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    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Garber View Post
    Speaking of Martin, did you see this 1983 anniversary AK model mandolin in the classifieds? Strange that they would call it a 45-AK when it looks like a Model E made of koa -- an EEK!
    I did see that, and found the block lettering on the pickguard particularly unattractive and uninspired, especially considering the care that seems to have gone into putting together the rest of it.
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    At least on the nice new high end Martins the bridges do not get a crack through all 6 of the pin holes and then have to be replaced. And the pick guards do not curl up and have to be replaced and the braces do not crack all by themselves for no reason. And the new Martins have adjustable necks so you can play past the first 5 frets because you can keep the necks from warping. I've owned old classic Martins and all that stuff happened to me. Even with the great care I give my instruments. I'll take the new Martins any day. Much better designed.
    ntriesch

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    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I've owned at least 35 old Martins ranging from 1928 to 1969. I've never had a bridge crack. The black acetate guards curled up, the previous ones not so much. I've never seen a Martin neck pre-67 bow, period.

    New Martins are made with plastic glue, not hide glue. The kiln process ruins the wood for any aging. The fake coloring of the top ruins any chance the guitar will age and look natural. The big cavity in the neck for the trussrod hurts the tone and especially the volume. No real pickers play new Martins. They make a pile of mediocre guitars every year for people who see the name. That's fine for some folks. I don't care for the look, feel, tone, anything about new Martins including their horrible dot-matrix pickguards...

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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I can tell you Jack Lawrence really - genuinely - likes his 'new' one. I'd call him a 'real picker', by any standards. If he is not a 'real picker', I don't know who would qualify. It is his main road guitar. I've played it and it is a good one. Personally, I think they are making some great guitars today - my wife has a custom shop OM-42 that is hugely impressive. While I am partial to vintage examples myself, I also appreciate the current range. The recently revised D-18 (with forward-shifted bracing) is excellent, and shows they are not ignoring the regular line. I do agree that actually 'warping' a T-bar neck would be rather difficult, though. Those things are near-on immovable (not so the short lived square tube). The new ones certainly do not all have 'aging toner' - only a relatively few have that, and if you don't like it - get one without it. I really don't fully get the hide-glue thing. It makes disassembly easier, and it is good, strong stuff, but alleged impact on tone? Some of the finest guitars (and mandolins) being made today use modern glues. You would have to do a true-blind test using a fairly large sample of identical instruments to see if people could reliably and consistently identify which was which. Comparing vintage or very high-spec instruments to non-similar instruments is no good, because it introduces too many variables. I would be pretty amazed if they could.

    Apparently, Martin did not totally abandon HHG (hot hide glue) in '63. It did continue to be used for gluing the tops/rims for some time after. I have worked on a few from the 'pre 67 period where it had certainly been used. The 'Bill Clifton' D-35 I presently own appears to have the top fixed with HHG, as did a very early '65 version of that model.
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    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    All Martins that I know of have varying degrees of toner to the top, including my D-18 Authentic. I've not seen a snow-white Martin top in years. Not saying they don't exist, just never seen one. Even the lightest-colored tops have a little pigment in the finish. As far as hide glue, you would have to read some of the posts on the UMGF circa 2006. Bryan Kimsey tried to make a D-18GE sound like its Authentic cousin and could not. He atrributed it to the glue. I don't disagree.

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    Registered User dusty miller's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I had an Martin acoustic bass guitar, I thought was really nice. Used it a lot at a small weekly gig I used to have with a guitar player. It got damaged in my flooded basement, wish I still had it.
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    Registered User Timbofood's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I went to Elderly with a friend back in 83, she bought what has become one dandy 28! I am looking for some early pictures but it was pretty much Snow White, now it has become her old friend and many others are impressed with how well it has come along, Audie Blalock has commented about it sound, Tommy Feller too. There are always good ones and not so good ones. All the way over there, I told her it was going to be a dog, not to get too worked up over it, it isn't going to be anything exciting. She played several while I was snooping about, then she came to get my opinion....I played about three chords and said " BUY THIS ONE!" It is THE nicest sounding, playing 28's from that period I have been around. My guitar player got one not long after that and it is still stiff and uncomfortable to play, in my opinion.
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I played Martin guitars for years but finally sold them and traded up to a Goodall Standard 33 years ago. The reason I did was because the Goodall had power that the Martins could not match and also I got tired taking the Martins in for factory authorized repair. Or just repair. I will say though that the new Martin HD28 models can sound pretty fantastic. Taylor guitars...now they sound great!
    ntriesch

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    bon vivant jaycat's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    My advice to Bluegrassers -- get a hold of an American-made Guild dreadnaught. Come home with a great guitar and some f-oldin' money in yer pocket too.
    "The paths of experimentation twist and turn through mountains of miscalculations, and often lose themselves in error and darkness!"
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I have a D18GE that Bryan Kimsey worked on and an HD-28 (that was new sitka spruce white when I bought it). They both play and sound just fine to my ears.

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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    The thing is that Martin still makes very fine sounding guitars. You will always have the old school guys say the good old Martins were the best. This same thought goes along with cars, homes, boats, guns and everything. There are a lot of players today who demand the thinner profile neck and adjustable neck of the newer Martins. Many players today want their guitars- to play like glass with very low action. Not to many old Martins that I have played were like that. I remember 35 years ago trying out Martin guitars at a very high end store in LA called West wood Music. I complained that the guitars were hard to play up the neck. The guitar guys told me that Martins were just hard to play past the 5th fret. That is what I have found over the years of old Martin guitars.
    ntriesch

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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Okay, I'm a new guy here, but Martins are production guitars. They fall on a Bell curve. Some of them are fabulous, some suck, and most fit into the middle. Why do the 50-60 year old Martins sound so good? Because they're 50 or 60 years old!

    They're lighter than heck cause ALL the water has migrated out of the wood, so they're stiffer and more responsive. And to be fair? Many of the not so great instruments have fallen by the wayside. There are a whole bunch of factors at work here, like the loss of Brazilian rosewood, but I'm guessing that, 50 years from now, some of these newer guitars are going to be as highly regarded as anything from the 30s.

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    Registered User bjewell's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Gplayer View Post
    I have a D18GE that Bryan Kimsey worked on and an HD-28 (that was new sitka spruce white when I bought it). They both play and sound just fine to my ears.
    They do sound great, just not like the 18A made with hide glue. The 18A sounds like a pre-war D-18...
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Click image for larger version. 

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    Full Grown and Cussin' brunello97's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Great company with a long history, great museum exhibition on the 19th C. evolution of the works, interesting article / pictorial display on the exhibit, the factory and the workers.

    So how do we move this thread back off of a typical pixxing contest about who likes Martin guitars and who doesn't? Or who is more of a know-it-all about Martin and who isn't?

    Mick
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Yes, I agree that the new D-18, or at least some of the new D-18s, are terrific instruments. Last spring, with no intention of buying anything, I stopped off at cool acoustic music store while taking a break on the road. Played all sorts of new and vintage instruments that afternoon from lots of different makers with lots of different materials: other Martins, Taylors, Hummingbirds, rosewoods, Collings, a Huss & Dalton, some boutiques, and a bunch of others I can't remember ... turned into kind of a long break! Maybe I don't have the best ear in the world, but I thought that D-18 was the best in the store. And NO comparison to the the 70s D-18 (no surprise), or the 2002 or 1960s D-18s (a surprise). (Won't tell you what happened next, but it involved the selling of a car, so you probably can guess ...)

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    Registered User almeriastrings's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    Quote Originally Posted by Nick Triesch View Post
    The guitar guys told me that Martins were just hard to play past the 5th fret. That is what I have found over the years of old Martin guitars.
    That is quite simply not true. I assure you, mine are just as "easy to play" up to the 12th fret (and beyond) as any other good guitar. It is setup - nothing else. A big problem has always been that the older (and some current) thru-saddle, or long saddle, bridges were much harder for a store to adjust than the 'drop in' saddle type, hence, many stores never even bothered. They hung them up with a factory setup, which was quite high. As with mandolins, a proper setup was (and is) essential to get them to play right. Doing a setup on these guitars is not as simple as on current instruments - you need someone who knows how to work with them, and again as with mandolins, most stores did not (and still don't) have a clue. One or the things Taylor did (very successfully) was send out guitars that were easy to set up - even the factory setup was pretty good (lowish, 'fast') with very 'modern' neck profiles. In the stores, that worked well, and made them easy to sell to players. At the time, I managed 3 large music stores, and also the repair departments - saw this all the time. Simple fact is that put a Martin into the hands of a setup person who really understands acoustic guitars, and you can have pretty much any action or 'feel' you want. The new ones are (drop-in saddle type) are much easier to work on anyway.
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    Registered User Jon Hall's Avatar
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    Default Re: CF Martin Article in NYTimes

    I recently purchased a 2013 stand D18. I think it is my favorite of the six Martins I have owned.
    Quote Originally Posted by RustyPickup View Post
    Yes, I agree that the new D-18, or at least some of the new D-18s, are terrific instruments. Last spring, with no intention of buying anything, I stopped off at cool acoustic music store while taking a break on the road. Played all sorts of new and vintage instruments that afternoon from lots of different makers with lots of different materials: other Martins, Taylors, Hummingbirds, rosewoods, Collings, a Huss & Dalton, some boutiques, and a bunch of others I can't remember ... turned into kind of a long break! Maybe I don't have the best ear in the world, but I thought that D-18 was the best in the store. And NO comparison to the the 70s D-18 (no surprise), or the 2002 or 1960s D-18s (a surprise). (Won't tell you what happened next, but it involved the selling of a car, so you probably can guess ...)

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